Charlbury Station parking charges

Fri 27 Jan 2017, 14:36

Just to point out that you can collect your pre-booked (cheaper) ticket from any of at least three machines at Oxford Parkway. They are indoors, not exposed to the elements and you can pay for (cheaper) parking at the same time.

OXP gets my vote over CBY every time, at least until GWR wakes up and stops ripping us off.

Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:12 (last edited on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:13)

GWR tell me that Oxford Parkway is to be added to the destinations available on the Charlbury Ticket machine. Here's their response:

"I can however confirm the addition of Oxford Parkway on Ticket Vending Machines has been requested, when the service was introduced. We continue to chase the supplier for this, but the delay has stemmed from Chiltern's initial notification of the new station service, as the initial request sits with the responsible TOC."

I await a response to the various other issues raised.

Sun 4 Dec 2016, 23:25

As per Trevor's posting some commentary on the situation: parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/railway-byelaw-fiaso-warming-up.html?m=1

Sun 4 Dec 2016, 13:21

Parking tickets for over-staying issued at Charlbury Station could be rendered invalid over doubts about the legality of the system. Charlbury is one of around 1,600 stations where the issue of parking tickets has been put on hold pending a challenge based upon the legal status of the process. The land used for the majority of car parks is subject to railway bye laws but tickets are issued under different statutes and the challenge to the parking 'fines' legality has meant ticket issuing has been brought to a halt while the appeal is heard. The Times of 3rd. December has the full story.

Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:18

Simon,

Thanks for pointing that out. Parking at Charlbury will then be twice the cost of parking at Oxford Parkway.

Thu 17 Nov 2016, 13:16

In case anyone didn't notice it yet, today's Oxford Times is reporting that daily parking charges at Charlbury station will be going up from £3.80 to £4.00 from 11th December.

Wed 9 Nov 2016, 11:24

Hilary,

A good result - in the end. Glad it worked out. Pity it took such effort to get them to see sense. As you say, the moral is not to give up if you believe you are in the right.

Wed 9 Nov 2016, 10:22

Good news! Gwr has written to say that my parking notice has been cancelled. This must encourage others not to pay automatically but to fight their corner if they believe they have grounds.
The difficulty is that they will need time and perseverance.

Sun 23 Oct 2016, 14:58

Thank you, Christine and Trevor, for valid comments.
Alcoa has already stated that it has passed my details on to Debt Recovery Plus so the matter is now out of its hands and it has refused to accept any more correspondence from me. Drp has said the same about further corrspondence, commenting that it is not an arbitration company.
In replying tO Gwr's message I have written that I await confirmation from Apcoa of the withdrawal of the parking charge and cancellation of its referral to Drp.
Incidentally, I have recently been informed that Apcoa runs the car parking arrangements at Southampton Airport. It cost me £3.60 merely to find a space as I was unable to find one in the 10 minutes free parking allowed. Just over 10 minutes longer and I should have had to have paid another £1. It's coining cash as fast as the Royal Mint!

Sat 22 Oct 2016, 18:06

Hilary,

I am pleased the 'prod' achieved the desired results. Your experience was clearly unacceptable and I felt confident you would 'win'. What is distressing is that you should have had to resort to management correspondence to be heard. Do keep all the documents - journalists following this story would like to see them. Trevor.

Sat 22 Oct 2016, 15:04 (last edited on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 15:08)

Hilary, that's really good news.

I do suggest, however, that you keep all correspondence from GWR & also any evidence that you have that you wrote to Apcoa in time. Once an item has been passed to a Debt Collection Agency, Apcoa can claim that it's out of their hands. If ever it does go to court you would be likely to win, but I would keep the correspondence, just in case. Also, don't succumb to any further threats about the need to pay up!

Like you, I now try to avoid parking at Charlbury station. When somebody is going to pick me up from there, I wait till I've arrived on the station platform to confirm that the train has, in fact, arrived. I've found it takes me as long to wheel my luggage from Platform 1 to the station entrance as it takes a friend to leave home in central Charlbury & get to the station by car.

Also worth knowing is that Apcoa have a late payment option which it doesn't advertise widely. As I have not used it myself, I can't tell you how much of a premium they charge. It would avoid all the hassle of getting a parking fine notice and then needing to get it rescinded, however. Some people opt for AutoPay instead. I won't do this since I had my car number plates stolen (in Charlbury last June), & I don't want to be responsible for the criminals' parking fines.

Sat 22 Oct 2016, 12:45

GWR has come up trumps! Its reply bore the reference given to me by the automated reply system about 3 weeks ago but I suspect that Trevor's prodding had something to do with it, too. Thank you Trevor!
GWR has checked my claims about my train's cancellation, found them true and is recommending that Apcoa cancels my parking notice. I wait to receive confirmation from Acpoa.
What I have found especially galling and frightening about all this, is the arrogant refusal of Apcoa to look into or even acknowledge my statements. It has taught me that if I tangle, even by mistake, with this firm I have no chance of persuading them of their injustice. The result - I am keeping away from Charlbury Station. However, the other lesson is - have courage and fight on.

Sat 15 Oct 2016, 21:49

There are a number of national media outlets (print and broadcast) looking at the wider picture. Charlbury is but an example of a much bigger problem. What the journalists seek are genuine examples of outrageous treatment - fines imposed because of late running or cancelled service - failure of NPR technology - administrative failures (catch 22 situations where innocent passengers are caught in an endless loop of referrals). There are a number of example on this site already - if you know of more do let me know.

This is a national story not just a local one.

Trevor.

Thu 13 Oct 2016, 08:59

Hilary,

I'll write to you directly on this. I am out today but will be in touch this evening.
Trevor.

Wed 12 Oct 2016, 18:31

As Trevor has established the land is owned by Network Rail and therefore Railway Byelaws apply and supersede their money making parking rules. The more people who give in to their extortion the more they'll keep doing it.

Wed 12 Oct 2016, 18:05

Trevor, thank you so much from me, too.
I'm still fighting my parking charge which is now £150. I did receive a swift response from Apcoa in reply to my request for a verification code - see my previous posting. They told me that as I had not replied to them within their time frame, they had passed the case on so were "unable to accept this letter and all future correspondence regarding this matter must now be sent to Debt Recovery Plus".
I had telephoned DRP previously and was told that they were not an arbitration agency - see previous posting.
I have now written back to both these companies sending them copies of my receipts for recorded delivery of mail to Apcoa, together with copies of the signed receipts of the recipients. These prove that I had written to Apcoa within their time frame. I await replies.
At the same time I emailed GWR but 3 weeks have not yet passed before I can expect to hear from them according to their automated answer.
Finally I wrote to Popla to find out how I could obtain that verification code when Apcoa refuses my correspondence and was told that they ought to have given it to me but I could try the British Parking Association.
I really am fed up with the futility of all this and although strongly object to paying a false parking charge, can see that it would have been so much easier and would have taken up far less of my time if I had paid the original £50 demand.

Mon 10 Oct 2016, 17:59

This is very helpful, Trevor; thank you for your time and trouble.

Mon 10 Oct 2016, 15:16 (last edited on Mon 10 Oct 2016, 15:18)

I have heard back from Mark Hopwood, the MD of GWR, following a letter I wrote asking for clarification on a number of issues relating to parking at Charlbury Station.

Who 'owns' the Charlbury station car park?
It is owned by Network Rail but GWR assume operational control through the…

Long post - click to read full text

Sat 1 Oct 2016, 23:32 (last edited on Sat 1 Oct 2016, 23:34)

Yes, Hannen, from early December. But if the ticket restrictions remain as at present,to benefit from the unrestricted return fares at the cheapest price, you will need to get a return to Oxford and also a day or cheap return to Marylebone via Oxford Parkway.

This is because GWR won't allow cheap returns on trains that leave London in the extended rush hour. Chiltern has no such restrictions.

NB you can already do this, but the trip between the two Oxford stations is by bus (included in the ticket price).

The alternative is to get the S3 to Summertown and walk down South Parade to the Banbury Road where you can pick up the 500 bus to Oxford Parkway. Opting for the S3 also opens up a later return from London via Marylebone for those evenings when GWR doesn't offer a late train back to Charlbury. It's also good for those with heavy luggage, since it's a flat walk.

Both rail companies also offer advance ticket fares, of course. Chiltern tickets can be bought and picked up at Charlbury.

Sat 1 Oct 2016, 17:31

"In less than 100 days the link between the 2 Oxford stations should be open. It will be fascinating to see if Gwr change their pricing policies once it becomes possible for non-drivers who live along the Cotswold Line to get a London return more cheaply & more flexibly by routeing via Marylebone."
Christine et al, does this mean I can travel from Charlbury to Oxford Parkway by train?

Tue 27 Sep 2016, 21:02

There are now two drop off spaces, and some (but not all) the terms and conditions signs have been modified by a sticker to indicate a 20min grace period for dropping off or picking up passengers. Web page referred to by Richard F. has not been updated.

Fri 23 Sep 2016, 11:26

Interesting comments here and a campaign for GWR to ditch Apcoa
www.fixmytransport.com/campaigns/ditch-apcoa-for-a-parking-system-tha

Fri 23 Sep 2016, 11:16 (last edited on Fri 23 Sep 2016, 11:20)

Hamish,thank you. It is so encouraging to receive support from others: it gives me strength to continue to refuse to pay.
I have just heard of a woman from Chipping Norton who waited to meet someone off a train which was late and who, of course, received a parking notice. As a single parent, she was terrified that the fine would go up from £50 to £100 so paid. To influence others like her not to pay, I hope to continue to post a record of my actions.
Yesterday first I telephoned Apcoa again. The first key-pad number choice I pressed had an automatic message saying to write if it was anything to do with appealing. The second told me repeatedly for 15 minutes not to hang up at which time I did.
Next,I emailed the GWR help-line who sent an automatic answer saying that they were busy so their reply might take 3 weeks. They advised me to contact them on Twitter and gave a link to Facebook. I do not subscribe to either of these. They also gave me a telephone number which I rang but gave up after listening to their musak for 15 minutes.
Then I telephoned the debt recovery agency who has a kindly sentence saying that they'll look into the matter if one does not think that one is liable for the debt. Iwan here told me that thay were not a negotiating agency so as I was refusing to pay he'll inform Apcoa and their solicitors. This last statement I understood to mean that legal action will be forthcoming so found it intimidating.
Finally I contacted Which? legal service which reiterated Christine's advice about Popla.
The ridiculous thing is that I now have to write again to Apcoa to ask them for the 10 digit verification code. I wonder if they'll reply this time!

Fri 23 Sep 2016, 10:27

Hilary, as I understand it the land is owned by Network Rail and therefore Railway Byelaws apply so unless dealt with through a magistrates court by Network Rail the debt recovery company has no standing. There's lots more information on the pepipoo forum as mentioned by Christine.

Fri 23 Sep 2016, 10:09

Trevor,

My apologies if my use of the word friend caused any offence.

Yes, I am on first name terms with Mark Hopwood, the GWR managing director. Having encountered him on a good few occasions since his appointment eight years ago, it would be a bit odd if I wasn't.

That does not prevent me, or anyone else from the CLPG, from raising problems with GWR (such as Apcoa's unacceptable behaviour at Charlbury) and seeking improvements - critical friends, so to speak.

Wed 21 Sep 2016, 11:30

Having just returned from a holiday, I am faced with a notice from a debt recovery agency demanding £150 on behalf of Apcoa. My original parking notice was issued because my train terminated at Oxford late at night due to lack of staff to take it to Moreton in Marsh and GWR provided a taxi to Charlbury. The next notice came because Apcoa claimed not to have received my explanation/objection after which I sent them a copy by recorded delivery. Apcoa's acknowledgement of this is to call in the debt recovery agency. I shall do as Christine suggests and contact the GWR help line. If anyone has any brilliant suggestions/advice I should be grateful to receive them.

Sat 17 Sep 2016, 17:37

William,

I had always understood to qualify as a friend it's necessary to be known to that person. As I know no-one at Chiltern Railways they can hardly be regarded as "my friends". However, from your previous posts (first name terms with the CEO) I note that you have friends on the Cotswold Line.

As for Chiltern Railways, I am impressed by their service but, for the sake of clarity, I have no connection except as a generally satisfied customer. I hope one day to be equally as positive about the services to and from Charlbury.

Sat 17 Sep 2016, 13:04 (last edited on Sat 17 Sep 2016, 13:07)

RE rover tickets, GWR's promotional efforts are pretty feeble, but ticket office staff on the Cotswold Line are well aware of their existence. I know they have been advising people who commute outside the peak to London several days a week about them for a long time, with the availability…

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Fri 16 Sep 2016, 09:44

What the station needs is some proper competition. Have the cricket club considered offering parking which could be run by Charlbury residents and the profits chanelled back into the club and local community much like the solar farm? Makes a great acronym COP (Charlbury's Own Parking)!

Mon 12 Sep 2016, 19:56

So, can I check I have understood this correctly?

An adult can travel from Charlbury to Oxford for an evening out for £3.10 adult return. I assume there are time conditions. One cannot book in advance but the ticket is purchased from the conductor. If that is the position, it's ironic, isn't it, that the parking fee at Charlbury equates to almost the fare! Is there an evening rate for parking? Seems not.

I noted in the weekend papers that estate agents are citing the proximity of Oxford Parkway as a selling point for houses in and around Charlbury.

Mon 12 Sep 2016, 18:38

It seems that you can now buy Oxford Evening Out tickets online*, which you never used to be able to do. I guess so they can enforce the penalty fares on "but the ticket machine was broken" riders. Interesting that "I only had cash" is a valid excuse though, good tip.

Mon 12 Sep 2016, 08:08

We use the 'Oxford Evening out' ticket all the time. £3/£1.50 adult/child. Just ask the conductor.

Sun 11 Sep 2016, 20:07

Regarding penalty fares (and realising that perhaps a new strand should be started on this subject), you are not subject to paying the penalty fare if the ticket office at Charlbury is closed and you only have cash, because Charlbury's ticket machine does not accept cash. I have asked the staff at the ticket office about this, and they have confirmed that this is correct.

Sun 11 Sep 2016, 18:57 (last edited on Sun 11 Sep 2016, 18:57)

Concerning the fact that Charlbury is now a Penalty Fare station, there is one ticket that is only available from the conductor on the train or via the website (not the ticket office as it is closed at that time, and it is not a displayed option on the station ticket machine). It is the Oxford Evening out. It is valid from Charlbury on trains departing 6.37pm and later. In researching this I have just discovered there are other 'rover' tickets that similarly seem to a bit of an insider's secret! tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/roversandranger

Sun 11 Sep 2016, 13:11

Christine,

A small number of major stations in London and big cities are directly managed by Network Rail - and it contracts Apcoa to run the car parks at these stations, which I assume is what the Apcoa website is trying to say.

We could go into the rights and…

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Sat 10 Sep 2016, 12:20 (last edited on Sat 10 Sep 2016, 12:59)

I can assure you that GWR Customer Services are aware of this website - and this thread; whether or not they read it is a different matter!

Sat 10 Sep 2016, 09:40

Very puzzled by Hans's request that I consider deleting the last paragraph of my previous post in case GWR reads it.

GWR can't stop Chiltern offering cheaper fares from Oxford to London, & this means that Cotswold Line passengers will be able to take advantage of these -- even if this would involve changing platforms & might also entail buying more than 1 ticket. This has been for a long time integral to Chiltern's business model: what it calls "self-packaging commercially processed products and fares".

Chiltern & Gwr seem already to be engaged in a price war over the Oxford passengers -- hence those extremely annoying adverts by Gwr down the whole of the Marylebone tube escalator, advertising cheap fares between London & Oxford. And that is also presumably one of the reasons why Gwr still offers Oxford passengers a cheap day return ticket, & why it is sometimes cheaper (as well as slightly more flexible) to buy 2 tickets for the same Gwr train -- a return ticket from Charlbury to Oxford, and then a Gwr day return from Oxford to London.

It could surely only be a good thing to let GWR know that passengers on the Cotswold Line have registered the potential for consumer savings.

Fri 9 Sep 2016, 16:56

Christine, perhaps you'd consider removing the last paragraph of your post, in case GWR reads this forum?

Fri 9 Sep 2016, 15:07

Thank you, William. It's very confusing. Apcoa's website states that they operate at all Network Rail stations across the UK, & they state that their Parking Contract with Network Rail runs from 2014-2019. But I take your word for the fact that, on the Cotswold line, the contract is with…

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Fri 9 Sep 2016, 10:02

Very useful, thanks William.

Fri 9 Sep 2016, 02:11 (last edited on Fri 9 Sep 2016, 02:29)

Christine,

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is that Apcoa is contracted by GWR to manage the car parks at its stations, including Charlbury. Parking at most stations in the country is the responsibility of the train operators. In the same way that GWR uses Apcoa, Chiltern Railways contracts…

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Tue 6 Sep 2016, 10:41

Christine. How kind of you to go to such lengths to explain so specifically! Thank you. Yes, it is a parking charge notice. At the moment I am merely awaiting a reply to my explanation and hoping that I shan't need to take the matter further.
I asked for the GWR address because most of your correspondents advocated contacting them.
I do feel that if all this individual chippping away at APCOA is not producing a long-term satisfactory situation, somebody outside who wields the necessary power should be involved: our MP, perhaps, or what about the CEO of Network Rail, if APCOA'S contract is with them. I have only now become acquainted with your web-site and am amazed that all this discontent exists. This could be a powerful group.

Mon 5 Sep 2016, 12:19 (last edited on Mon 5 Sep 2016, 12:22)

Hilary: I take it you were issued with a Parking Charge Notice by Apcoa (not a Penalty Charge Notice) -- see my post on 23 August for my understanding of how these differ.

If so, as I understand it, Apcoa will need to have given you a Popla code and…

Long post - click to read full text

Mon 5 Sep 2016, 11:07

Even if Amanda wrote to APCOA, there's no guarantee they'd receive the message. I wrote objecting to being fined when my day trip to London train finished at Oxford because there was 'no available staff to drive it' and although GWR provided me and 2 others with a taxi, I did not reach Charlbury till after midnight. My objection would have reached APCOA on a Friday or Saturday so when they sent me a second demand saying that I now owed £100, I telephoned. I was told that they had not received my letter so to write again. I did not feel that they were doing much to look for it. The second time I sent my letter by registered post. I await a reply.
When you advocate writing to GWR, to whom are you writing? Please would you post details. Is it the CEO?

Sun 4 Sep 2016, 21:18 (last edited on Mon 5 Sep 2016, 05:48)

I did't realise quite how strongly feelings ran when I posted the initial question.

There's obviously a huge anti-GWR feeling among passengers who use, or try to use, the service from Charlbury. The issue over heavy-handed parking charges/fines is but the tip of the iceberg. Many local people are discovering the service from Oxford Parkway is better in terms of cost, convenience, punctuality and parking. It is spurious to claim GWR operate on a more complex line - that's for them to tackle - what matters to passengers is who delivers and currently Oxford Parkway scores well above Charlbury. The issue over the absence of drop-off bays, set-down times and parking fines simply adds to the impression that GWR cares less about passengers and is intent on maximising revenue at the cost of customer care.

William I appreciate you represent the Cotswold Line Promotion Groups but, to be honest, your comments sound as if they come from the GWR PR department. Maybe the clue is in the 'Promotion' in the group's title.

Of course GWR's seriousness will be judged by their actions. Will drop-off bays be reinstated, will notices appear clarifying the period we can park without incurring fees or fines, will taxis continue to be penalised for waiting for late running services? It is conspicuous that no management member of GWR has appeared here to answer the many criticism yet I find it difficult to believe that given the media coverage and the CLPG's hot line to the executives they are unaware of the strength of feeling.

We watch with interest. This issue will not go away.

Sun 4 Sep 2016, 07:48

William

I agree with all the points you make, and personally have found that the frequency, punctuality and comfort of the GWR service (from Charlbury) has significantly improved over the years I have used it.

However, it does sometimes feel that the Cotswold line is a bit of an inconvenience to them, rather than a great opportunity to provide better connections from the West of England and Wales (though that might be more down to Network Rail)

Sat 3 Sep 2016, 22:20 (last edited on Sat 3 Sep 2016, 22:20)

Peter,

As someone who uses the Cotswold Line, I'm well aware that GWR's services can be the cause of enormous aggravation at times. But as I pointed out, Chiltern's services, while generally more punctual and reliable, still suffer problems on occasion. That there is less disruption is hardly surprising, as they run on what is effectively a private railway, with almost no other services to get in the way, unlike the Great Western route out of Paddington, which is far more complicated, with far more trains running, including lots of freight.

If you want to drive to Oxford Parkway, fair enough. If I need to get to Wembley, then I will usually drive to a Chiltern station - and take the pain of their parking charges - as it's far easier to do the journey that way.

But you really aren't being fair if you are trying to compare Chiltern's service to Oxford Parkway - and a city of 150,000 people - with GWR's to Charlbury (and points beyond). The more accurate comparison would be with GWR's services between London and Oxford, with a last departure from Paddington more than an hour after the last Chiltern train leaves London.

New Intercity Express Trains should start to appear on the Cotswold Line by the end of next year and Turbos will be gone (except the all-stations stopper on weekdays) no later than December 2018.

Sat 3 Sep 2016, 18:53

I had an issue with parking today as the machine took my money and then refused to print a ticket forcing me to pay twice so that I could put a ticket in my car window! I then could not speak to anyone on either phone number displayed and was told by an automated voice to put my complaint in writing! Appalling!

Sat 3 Sep 2016, 14:02

Christine, I heartily agree with your comments about the difficulties presented by Charlbury Station for those with mobility problems. The station was great until the line was redoubled but the bridge is so long that anyone with restricted mobility and a blue badge cannot use it as the distance to be covered exceeds the criteria for the badge by 100%. In the old days when there was a double track one just walked across the line. I have taken up the issue with Cameron and GWR to no avail. So I now use Hanborough Station as there is only one line. On the issue of Drop Off points, there are none in either station but the Disabled Bays are used instead. I found this to my cost having had a nightmare journey back from London on one of the hottest days of the year to find a thoughtful soul had chosen to park right behind me when there were 2 empty bays and then took forever to collect and leave! I have complained to GWR about the journey and suggested that they look at this site to see how passengers view their service. I shall certainly consider using Oxford Parkway in future and they have lifts thank heavens.

Sat 3 Sep 2016, 14:02

Christine, I heartily agree with your comments about the difficulties presented by Charlbury Station for those with mobility problems. The station was great until the line was redoubled but the bridge is so long that anyone with restricted mobility and a blue badge cannot use it as the distance to be covered exceeds the criteria for the badge by 100%. In the old days when there was a double track one just walked across the line. I have taken up the issue with Cameron and GWR to no avail. So I now use Hanborough Station as there is only one line. On the issue of Drop Off points, there are none in either station but the Disabled Bays are used instead. I found this to my cost having had a nightmare journey back from London on one of the hottest days of the year to find a thoughtful soul had chosen to park right behind me when there were 2 empty bays and then took forever to collect and leave! I have complained to GWR about the journey and suggested that they look at this site to see how passengers view their service. I shall certainly consider using Oxford Parkway in future and they have lifts thank heavens.

Thu 1 Sep 2016, 20:34 (last edited on Fri 2 Sep 2016, 12:40)

William

As someone who lives in Stonesfield, who has used GWR for many years, I must say that the Chiltern experience from Oxford Parkway is a significant improvement (though a slightly longer drive to get to the station). It is a regular 1/2 hour service compared with a 1 hour service with the odd 2 hour gap. There is a consistent late night service from London. Whilst generally the GWR trains are more comfortable with a buffet car service, they also use the abysmal Thames Turbos (or whatever they are called now)which must have been designed by some very short person. I don't have to worry about whether there are any parking spaces (though I suspect with the competition this problem will go away). Personally having registered with the Apcoa and Parkreg services which just charge you based on ANPR, I have never had any parking issues. GWR need to up their game to get my custom back when travelling to London. It is also marginal when travelling to Cardiff whether to travel with GWR via Reading or Chiltern via Marylebone and Paddington.

PS - I was particularly annoyed with GWR when my return train from Cardiff (which was slightly late) pulled into Didcot, and at the moment the doors opened, the connecting train on the other side of the platform just drove off. It was quicker to get the next train to Oxford and then the S3 bus. They have no concept of customer service.

Thu 1 Sep 2016, 19:42

Helen,

I really don't see why it should be necessary for me to post the content of my correspondence with Claire King here - unless you don't believe me, or Claire, about the 20-minute grace period. As I said, if people are having problems with Apcoa over penalty notices issued…

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Thu 1 Sep 2016, 13:19

It's about time GWR realised that it now has significant competition. It's obviously registered this for Hanborough where parking is cheaper than at Charlbury. There the daily rate is £3, with after 10 & Sats £1.80 & Sundays free. At Charlbury it's £3.80, & £2.30 after 10 & also on Sats and Suns.

I also hope that GWR and APCOA do provide some free and temporary drop-off bays. Regular commuters may not like this, as William Crossley notes, but the comparison he makes between Charlbury station & other stations on the Cotswold Line is not very fair. What other station on the line is so inaccessible to those with mobility issues, whilst also having such high parking charges, ANPR and also no public transport to the station? Not every person with mobility issues qualifies for a blue badge.

The Government Design Standards for accessible Stations explicitly states: "If feasible, a short term waiting area for drivers
of vehicles picking up disabled passengers or a disabled driver waiting for passengers should also be provided in addition to the setting-down point." I don't see why this is not feasible at Charlbury Station.

The link for station designs is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/425977/design-standards-accessible-stations.pdf

Wed 31 Aug 2016, 13:38 (last edited on Fri 2 Sep 2016, 10:43)

I used Oxford Parkway for the first time yesterday. It was brilliant and I will try very hard to use in the future as I see no point in rewarding FGW for the lack of service they provide. As I posted previously, the tickets on Chiltern were less than half the price and the service (including parking) was much better.

Tue 30 Aug 2016, 21:43 (last edited on Tue 30 Aug 2016, 21:44)

I don't think there is any chance of Charlbury losing its station. GWR does very well here, and that's part of the problem: they have no incentive to up their game. So with GWR we have last trains back from London that are too early for anyone spending the evening in town. Using Charlbury station is fine in principle, but only if there are trains!

Tue 30 Aug 2016, 16:34

Jon - and others, its all very well glowing on how wonderful Oxford Parkway is, however if you don't drive, you cannot get there. As with shops, use our local station - otherwise that may be in danger of being lost!

Tue 30 Aug 2016, 15:13

I agree with Helen. I'd add the facts that the trains run on time, that the latest departure from Marylebone is at 23.10, and most journeys take an hour. Parking is £2 and if you buy a cheap day return (about £16 with a railcard, so only a little dearer than the Oxford Tube from Thornhill and infinitely preferable) you can come back on any train. Every train has a bus connection to Oxford, but from next year the trains will terminate at Oxford station. Oh, and Marylebone is on the Jubilee line, or a short walk from Baker Street which is on five different tube lines. Hard to beat, IMHO!

Tue 30 Aug 2016, 09:30

It is all very well suggesting we should all go to the parkway for our journeys by train, but this isn't much use coming from Oxford or from the Hereford direction.

Tue 30 Aug 2016, 09:11

William, would it be possible, please, to scan your email from Claire King at GWR (or at least the relevant bit about the 20 minutes waiting time) and put it on the Charlbury website? Otherwise you may get a number of us contacting you in future if we fall foul of APCOA! But I hardly use Charlbury station now, as Oxford Parkway is so much more satisfactory - lovely station, helpful staff, plenty of parking, regularity of service, and if you miss a train there is another one in 30 minutes! And no steps to climb when alighting at Marylebone.

Fri 26 Aug 2016, 18:04 (last edited on Fri 26 Aug 2016, 18:06)

Trevor,

As someone who works in the media, I am aware of what it can help to do, but I wouldn't for a moment be so presumptuous as to suggest media coverage is a prerequisite for achieving change. Many people have achieved results without media involvement, the CLPG included.

Whatever Apcoa may be telling people, I have an email from Claire King at GWR clearly stating the current grace period is 20 minutes, so have no reason to doubt it.

I would recommend anyone having issues with Apcoa over penalty notices to contact GWR. As you noted in your initial post, Apcoa is a contractor - and can always be replaced if it does not meet the obligations in its contract - but people need to let GWR know when things are going wrong, as they clearly seem to be in the case of some of these penalty notices.

Re drop-off spaces, they basically don't exist at any car parks at stations along the Cotswold Line, such is the pressure for long-stay spaces, not least at Charlbury. Aside from (hopefully) brief periods either side of train arrivals and departures, they would stand empty much of the time, which would probably not go down well with people who need a long-stay space.

Fri 26 Aug 2016, 11:31

William,

Of course a successful outcome requires both negotiations by recognised bodies and the weight of public opinion enhanced with media coverage. It is no coincidence that James Pearce's fine was rescinded within hours of the BBC taking up the story. There still seems to be some confusion over the so called 'Grace Period'. Callers to Alcoa and being told the period is just ten mutes - certainly a notice confirming the duration would be helpful but even 20 minutes is inadequate as services are often delayed by more than that. There is also the issue of drop off bays which no longer exist and ought to be reinstated. I assume these are matters which CLPG is taking up?

I think if we all work together then the improvements we all seek can be achieved. Thank you for your support.

Fri 26 Aug 2016, 09:23

Trevor,

If by 'traditional routes' you mean contacting GWR, the Cotswold Line Promotion Group has done just that by speaking to the new Cotswold Line stations manager, Claire King, which I would like to think may have helped in part to prompt today's meeting. She took up the post last week after Alan Field's recent retirement.

She has advised us that the grace period allowed is 20 minutes and Apcoa has been asked to provide signs at Charlbury making this clear. We await further developments from the meeting. A possible extension of the grace period will be discussed.

Thu 25 Aug 2016, 09:24

James,

Thanks for going the TV interview. Glad the parking fine got cancelled. Sometimes a little media attention focuses minds more than traditional routes and achieves the end result faster. Large corporation are acutely aware of their image, not that Alcoa or GWR have a lot to protect, but when there's a clear injustice they do not want to be seen as the 'baddies'....even if they are.

Tony, the figures are interesting and, of course, all that revenue comes from motorists.

Let's keep an eye on progress and see what concrete proposals emerge from the reported meeting between GWR and Alcoa on Friday. I'm happy to wave the media wand again if things stick.... and we haven't even started using national coverage yet.

Wed 24 Aug 2016, 23:24

The latest-profit figures from the Apcoa group were 54.86 million euros.
They contribute nothing to the building of the car parks but just manage them
Nice little business

Wed 24 Aug 2016, 18:04

I took part in an interview at the Station this morning with BBC South today.
About the parking situation with Apcoa. I was told that their is a meeting between GWR and Apcoa on Friday to try and resolve the parking issues. The station master photocopied my parking charge notice, showing my car entering the car park. When it was plainly leaving. My Parking charge was cancelled within hours. Watch this space.

Tue 23 Aug 2016, 09:54 (last edited on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 10:09)

Bylaws apply on Railway Land. If you look at the discussion of the case at Charlbury station where a parking ticket was handed out, www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t106978.html, you will see that Apcoa sometimes uses an existing bylaw to justify the ticket. As I understand it (and it's very complex, so I could be wrong), there are 2 possible routes that Apcoa could take to press for payment.

Route 1 involves appealing to existing bylaws that cover Network Rail land. This route takes a refusal to pay to a Magistrate's Court; but to pursue this route Apcoa need to know the name of the driver (not just the keeper) of the vehicle. If Apcoa is going down this route they need to issue a Penalty Charge Notice. All that Dvla provides, however, is the name of the keeper of the vehicle, and Apcoa are thus blocked from using this route unless they can identify the driver.

The second route involves a Parking Charge Notice (NB not a Penalty Charge Notice) which is just an unpaid invoice, and which is subject to the Parking on Private Land Appeals tribunal (Popla). As members of the British Parking Association, Apcoa need to stick to the guidelines laid out by Bpa, and Popla will find against them if they deviate from these. If following this route, the keeper will be held responsible if the driver can't be identified.

In the Charlbury case, Apcoa tried to use both options, and those contributing to the discussion think that Apcoa will lose at Popla stage. Look at Money Savings Expert also, www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

Tue 23 Aug 2016, 07:48

Exactly, graham W, that is what I said on this very thread on Friday!

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 12:32

I am being asked by media outlets for interviews with people who have been or will be affected by the unfair charging practice in operation at Charlbury Station.

If you are happy to talk to a reporter and/or be interviewed by a broadcaster please let me know asap.

Trevor.

Sun 21 Aug 2016, 20:12

If the ANPR is the system used to register in/out going vehicles, just cover your number plate, after all it is private land!

Sun 21 Aug 2016, 17:35

If Apcoa starts to enforce all these unreasonable fines, I'd write to Network Rail - who is I think the the landowner - and the British Parking Association as well as GWR.
Apcoa would have to have agreed all this with the landowner and the people they're doing it for, i.e. GWR who operate the station. This would all be under contracts between the parties.
Incidentally, is the 15 minutes spelled out on the notice boards because if it isn't, it would be seen as unreasonable. And the signs I saw a few weeks ago said 'ANPR in operation' NOT 'ANPR enforcement' - has this changed?

Sun 21 Aug 2016, 15:32

James, your story is not unique. I have heard many similar. We now have media interest. Would you be happy to speak to a reporter?

Regards

Trevor.

Sun 21 Aug 2016, 11:57

www.donotpay.co.uk is a free and easy site to use for a variety of appeals including parking tickets.

Sun 21 Aug 2016, 01:03

Jim's taxis was issued with a ticket by Apcoa with to photos both showing my car leaving the car park at 4.45pm. I wrote and told them that I was a private hire Taxi driver, and that I am only at the station long enough to deliver or pick up from the station. When I explained this to them I was told I entered the car park at 2.55pm. Yet the photo shows me leaving at 2.55pm. As does the 4.45pm photo. They can go to hell as far as I am concerned. I will see them in court if I have to.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 22:37 (last edited on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 22:42)

Philip, Answers
1) Yes. Some have disputed this, but it seems a lost battle.
2) Yes, as long as Apcoa don't make mistakes in serving the notice (which they often do). But Apcoa uses debt collection agencies, and often don't pursue the claims. At the Popla stage they lose about half the appeals. Court is a later stage.
3) No, but I am not sure what this has to do with anything. FGW also relied on Apcoa, just didn't introduce Anpr at Charlbury. I think all Network Rail stations use Apcoa & also airports too.
4) Yes, Oxford Parkway is attractive pricewise. Off-peak day return to London with no restrictions on the return @£16.50 with a railcard. On GWR this is over £40,since there are no day returns from Charlbury - although they are offered (with restrictions) from Oxford on GWR.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 20:57

1. Do ACPOA have the right to access the DVLA database for this purpose?
2. Is the fine enforceable in a court of law or is this pure bravado?
3. Since FGW became GWR are all the trains now running to time?
4. Oxford Parkway becomes increasingly attractive - own goal!

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 20:28

The trouble, as I see it with allocated drop off bays is that for the larger/peek time trains coming in there would almost certainly not be enough bays to accommodate those waiting. I would think pursuing a reasonable free wait time, and removing all restrictions for taxis would be the best way.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 17:39

Just another example of "rip off Britain". I agree with most of the posts, especially Christine's. Why is there no pick up/drop off point? This is pure extortion.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:42 (last edited on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:50)

Charlie, Covering up your number plates is illegal. I'm pretty sure it's a public highway, not a private road. It's certainly not a road owned by Apcoa, which is one reason why a lot of Apcoa fines don't get as far as the courts if registered keepers of vehicles refuse…

Long post - click to read full text

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:20

I really object to these private companies taking over "(mis)management" of our town assets like this. Sadly it is symptomatic of the times we live in. I do however have a suggestion:
As far as I am aware, Charlbury Station Car Park is NOT public highway. Therefore, if this is correct, if you are meeting someone off a train, as soon as you leave the highway and enter the car park, how about covering up your number plates so that the cameras cannot see them?! Of course, you need to be sure to remember to uncover them before going back onto the public highway!

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 10:55 (last edited on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:09)

Thank you to all who have responded to my initial post.

There's clearly an issue here. The question is which body is best placed to take up our cause? Enlisting David Cameron's help at this stage may be using a sledgehammer to crack the proverbial nut. We can wheel out the big guns if other options fail. There's also the media, of course, I can help there.

The issues, as I see it and as represented on this forum, are:

1: Confusion over the 'grace' period. We should insist on one hour. That would allow for trains which run late but would not give anyone free parking for rail journeys as no sensible journey can be undertaken in an hour.

2: There must be drop-off bays clearly marked and stating the one-hour time limit.

3: Registered taxis must be allowed to collect and deliver passengers to the station without incurring fees or fines. Existing fines for cabbies should be annulled.

It is in the interests of GWR to insist their contractor, Apcoa, make these changes. As has been pointed out Oxford Parkway allow one-hour in drop-off bays and already passengers who would normally use Charlbury are making the trip to Oxford Parkway as the fares are lower and the facilities better.

If these changes are not agreed and implemented then taxi drivers will boycott Charlbury with the subsequent loss of revenue to GWR.

Trevor.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 10:17

Liz, the C.L.P.G. committee is aware, on Monday the Treasurer was asking me about the A.N.P.R. cameras and the 15 minute period. He'd been waiting at the station to meet another committee member travelling by train and was fearful of being fined. I've drawn his attention to this thread and asked if number plate recognition is in operation at any other station on the line, e.g. Kingham and Hanborough, where car parks have been extended.

It's surprising that we haven't heard of anger and resentment from elsewhere along the line - although I'm sure it won't be long!

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 09:05

Sorry, late to the party, but can I confirm - drivers visiting the station now have a 15 min period before getting a £50 fine which is issued to the owner of the car, not the driver; If you leave and then immediately return another 15 mins is granted; If you wish to stay over 15 mins you have to buy a whole day ticket. If so, what cost is a day ticket?

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 09:03

What about asking the Cotswold Line Promotion Group to take this on? There used to be a representative on the committee nominated by WODC but that is no longer the case. David Cameron is a vice president, though, according to their website, so some representation from them to GWR might be helpful as this will affect people from all over the area, not just in Charlbury.

Fri 19 Aug 2016, 08:51

I have registered with Autopay which charges based on time of entry and exit, so no penalty charges. It would be simple for APCOA to use this to apply a grace period or to charge per hour rather than day

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 21:19

David Cameron has lots more time to look after his constituents these days. Why don't we all email him and ask him to sort it out.

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 20:38

If a train is late and you are not aware of that and go to the Station on time to pick someone up you should not be penalised anyway. Money for old rope comes to mind.

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 20:32

This morning I phoned the number given by Richard, as suggested, and was told that one is allowed to wait for ten minutes, after which a fine is payable. The solution is to drive out of the station, go round the mini-roundabout, and drive back in. I wonder how many people know this?

When my train back to Charlbury this afternoon/evening was delayed by about twelve minutes, I noticed lots of people waiting in their cars to collect their children and partners and so on. A twelve-minute delay wouldn't seem to be much to complain about: but unless the drivers already knew about the new policy, they will all have incurred fines, which doesn't strike me as terribly fair.

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 16:38

I would have thought a one hour grace period would be fair. It is too short a time to do a meaningful rail journey and for what other reason would you be parking at the station?

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 14:13

Not only can you wait for an hour for free at Oxford Parkway, the fares to London are substantially cheaper. I just paid £21 for an adult and two kids for an off-peak return including unlimited tube and bus in zone 1. It's £35 minimum on FGW.

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 11:50

Who owns the land at the station? Surely not Apcoa? If it is Network Rail it is a public body and perhaps representations could be made to them to curb the excesses of their contractor? It is absurd that someone waiting at a train station to pick up a paying customer should be harassed like this.

Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:19 (last edited on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 10:46)

Shona, it looks as if there have also been other cases at Charlbury station, at least supposing that you are not the person referenced at www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t106978.html

This is dreadfully unfair for a variety of reasons: poor signage, no temporary parking bays for those picking up people with impaired mobility or…

Long post - click to read full text

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 21:05

I too was charged £100 when I took an elderly neighbour and waited at the station for over 30 minutes due to the train being late! I contested this to no avail and was told there is a grace period of 15 minutes but cannot see this advertised anywhere on their board. I questioned this and was told they don't advertise this as people will abuse the system! At Oxford Parkway you can park for up to an hour without being charged.

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 17:28

Why not call them and ask, as per GWR's suggestion?

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 17:08 (last edited on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 17:09)

Richard,

Thank you for that 'Twitter' response.

However, "Apcoa site advises payment within 15 minutes." does not constitute a 'grace period' it simply means you have to pay within 15 minutes. I can find no mention of a 'grace period' on the Apcoa Charbury Station website.

I understand one local taxi driver has picked up five £50 fines. If this continues then it will be impossible to get any taxi driver to collected from or deliver to Charlbury Station.

Now I fully understand that Apcoa and Gwr need to maximize revenue from the car park at Charlbury Station but extracting a fee or fine for a fleeting visit smacks of extortion. Also, given the poor punctuality of services at Charlbury, it seems a bit thick to penalise taxis and those delivering or collecting passengers when extended waits are caused by late running services.

I think there needs to be a clear statement from Apcoa spelling out how long we can stay at the station before fees are due and details of the policy when trains are delayed, If this is not forthcoming then I feel a lobby coming on. What do other station car park users think?

(The problem with caps appear to be related to abbreviations - hence lowercase use of apcoa and gwr.)

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 16:45

I had a complaint about a month ago from a resident whose friend had been given a ticket when dropping a family member at the station. I was told at the time that there was a problem with the cameras, which were not recording the time of entry and departure correctly, and the ticket had been issued in error. The person concerned got a refund. I am not sure what happened after that - it sounds as if the problem has not been fixed, or if it has been, the same error has re-occurred

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 16:26

Richard,

Thanks for the swift reply. I did respond but the reply was rejected as it was in caps....except, it wasn't.
It is somewhere in the system or do I need to write again?
Trevor.

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 15:57

There is meant to be a grace period. I've just asked GWR on Twitter and they said:

"APCOA site advises payment within 15 minutes: www.apcoa.co.uk/parking-in/charlbury/charlbury-station.html . Advise calling them on 0345 165 2030 to confirm. James"

Wed 17 Aug 2016, 15:32

I understand that even a fleeting visit to Charlbury Station to pick-up or drop-off passengers incurs a parking charge and if you don't realise you have to pay then a £50 fine wings it way to you which doubles to £100 if you happen to be on holiday and don't see the notice. I understand a number of local taxi drivers have fallen foul of this harsh charging practice. Can anyone shed light on the policy being employed by the parking sub-contractor?