Parking impacting local business (Roads)

Tue 2 Dec, 11:35

30 minutes is what you are allowed in Melton Mowbray to buy your pork pies.  If you want a coffee as well I think it's 50 pence now.  The streets are still fully parked because that's free - also vehicles are so big now they don't easily fit in car park spaces and people are worried about the paintwork.  I watched the bus take the front of a car off in Charlbury and I felt great sympathy for the driver of the bus. 

I'm not suggesting anything.   I'm having abuse hurled at me because I've told the website what other towns do in exactly the same situation.  

Tue 2 Dec, 11:13

Alice, if only 30 minutes free parking were allowed at Spendlove, it would impact residents not living near the town centre, or are you proposing that only commuters have to pay?  

Mon 1 Dec, 22:38 (last edited on Tue 2 Dec, 08:19)

I think you misunderstood me Simon. Of course, there is no cheap land in the south-east, that is why there is no such thing as free parking.  Of course I don't want the businesses to fail.  Some businesses in Charlbury have car parks, others don't need them, a few depend on the historic availability of roadside parking which is now full or at some distance.

Have they got together and discussed their common problem?  Have they approached the commercial operators of the station car park?  Can you prove it's regularly full?  It's not full whenever I walk past it.  The airb&b's and the hotel accommodations could use over-night parking and longer term parking..  If all else fails, might they try to identify a piece of land they could rent?  

There are lots of suggestions to make minor adjustments to the parking access and timings some of which will be taken up I expect.  But that doesn't solve the problem long-term and the town employers need to address it now.

Mon 1 Dec, 19:14

It sounds like Alice wants all the businesses in Charlbury to disappear! The station carpark is full quite regularly during the day. This is when people need to park, not at 11pm at night when Alice has observed the station carpark being empty. And as for businesses in Charlbury having spare low value land to use for parking, I think I want to move to Alice Town! 

I agree it may not be the councils problem to provide business with parking, but if they suddenly remove all available long stay parking that businesses are currently using, parking won't be a problem because there will be nothing to come to Charlbury for!

Mon 1 Dec, 14:11

Claire makes an excellent point Christopher.  In our shared world though, employers come up with other solutions for the attraction and retention of staff.  They might have low value land and use it for that purpose, they might pay to reserve an area of a commercial car park.   I would suggest that all the towns employers get together and come up with their own solution.   In my 40 years of working I only had one employer offer free parking - that was on an industrial estate in Kilmarnock - low land values.

I don't see this as anything to do with the Councils, they have the responsibility to keep the roads free from congestion and to do that they need to keep road-side parking under control which it clearly isn't at the moment.

Fri 28 Nov, 23:19

I think that essential businesses should be able to buy annual permits for the on street parking, just like residents can.  It doesn’t make sense that houses with garages and drives are allowed to apply for on street parking but businesses with no private parking are not. 

Fri 28 Nov, 18:57

So in your world Alice, where can staff working at the nursery, other Charlbury businesses, or our important tradesmen’s park? 

Fri 28 Nov, 15:22

The station car park is not too far for many others. 

Introduce a half hour free parking at the Spendlove and charged parking thereafter with a higher charge for long stay parking than currently exists at the station, put signs up to the station 'long stay parking'.  This system exists over the rest of the country.  E.g. Cockermouth there is a charge for the town centre car park returned by the supermarket at the check out because it's their car park.  Fowey - huge fines if you overstay the town centre car park for all night parking. 

Thu 27 Nov, 23:02 (last edited on Thu 27 Nov, 23:06)

Not wanting to start a fight between a past Deli chair and the current one, Rod, but that “harsh truth” wasn’t my experience at all. Almost all motorised Deli visitors in my time were builders who left their vans idling on the double yellows and popped in for a bacon sandwich (and they were very valued customers!). They can, and do, still do that – indeed, the on-street time restrictions mean that the town has more parking available to Deli visitors than it has ever had.

Most Charlbury people came on foot, and at weekends we got cyclists too. (cf Lynne’s old maxim about cyclists being better customers than walkers because they don’t bring their own sandwiches…)

Broadly speaking, once someone gets in the car, they don’t mind whether they drive half a mile, or eight miles. The best thing WODC could do for retail in Charlbury is to stop subsidising parking in Witney.

Wed 26 Nov, 20:25

As promised on the main board...  

If you want a thriving town centre, with businesses new and old you and people who don't live here might want to visit, then the harsh but simple truth - however unacceptable to some - is that the town needs more publicly available parking.  That is not an attack on the Bull so much as a stab at the local authority/ies which designate/s Charlbury as a 'Rural Service Centre' -which of course it is in practice as well as in planningspeak - but then actually reduce/s (so I'm led to believe) the number of spaces in the town rather than trying to find ways to increase them. 

Emphasis here on 'rural centre' i.e. not easily accessed by everyone in contrast to a city with good public transport.  Not suggesting the solution is easy, given resources but the atation car park - sorry Alice - is too far away for many.

Thu 20 Nov, 08:54

Wednesday 20th November at 08:25 hrs - 20 empty spaces in the commercially operated station car park.  

Footpath to station covered in frosty, soggy leaves.

Sun 9 Nov, 11:13

At 23:00 hrs on a Saturday night the car park by the station was empty.  I'm sure that the commercial operators would want more income from weekend visitors.

Sat 8 Nov, 18:59 (last edited on Sat 8 Nov, 19:03)

Hans, It's 2 different parking zones and 2 sets of payment machines at Oxford Parkway. The bus car park used to be called Water Eaton, but is now (confusingly) just signed as Oxford Parkway Park and Ride (RingGo zone 3925) The Oxford Parkway Rail Station is Apcoa Connect (zone 2148). The pricing is more or less the same, but the length of stay is not! 

One can park in the bus area if using the rail station, but you need to pay with the bus machines and then walk to the station. The same is also true in reverse, and the bus parking is also very limited, and does often get filled up! There are no very obvious notices about the separate car parks, so people often get caught out. 

OCC's notice about this is here: https://www.oxford.gov.uk/directory-record/96/oxford-parkway-park-and-ride NB it says that the free bus travel into town (for the next 3 months) is only available to those using the bus car park.

Importantly, the maximum stay in the bus area is 72 hours, so this is not a solution if you want to leave your car at the rail station for longer than this. I often used to leave my car at the Oxford Parkway Station for several days, and I'm really unsure whrether this will be possible in the future.

I thought it pretty cynical of the ANPR detection officers to be operating in the bus parking zone in the very first week when the congestion charge had come into effect. OCC had claimed that the congestion charge was not a revenue raising exercise, but this didn't stop their enforcement officers from giving out numerous parking tickets!

Sat 8 Nov, 17:34

Just walked to and from the station today.  In the morning there were lots of spaces in the car park and in the evening there were less but still spaces.  It was a busy shopping day in Oxford.  I asked my fellow passengers (quite a few) getting off the train at Charlbury.  They had driven to Charlbury from all around and always used it in preference to the P&R in Eynsham because they could always park here and the bus journey from Eynsham is very slow.

Christine's information about it being full Tuesday-Thursday sounds exactly right and fits in with new working arrangements post-Covid.  

But, I did look closely at the small print T&C's of the car park.  It did sort of suggest you needed to be using the rail services.  It didn't specify for what or when.  I don't think anyone has ever paid any attention to that.  Is the car park private?  It's managed under franchise issued by the Government.  Where there is a real pressure on space the code for the car park is available on the station platform which makes parking more difficult for non rail users.  Maybe we should have an arrangement with the outgoing franchisee about the Town directing cars to it Friday to Monday.

But still a perverse incentive - free parking in town & paid parking an 8 min walk away.  Need to introduce charges at the Spendlove or the station car park won't be used. 

Sat 8 Nov, 16:13

Hi Christine. Are you saying that one is not allowed to park at the Oxford Parkway parking for the train and then use Park and Ride? That would be idiotic as the Park and Ride parking does now not have the capacity after the congestion charge...

Sat 8 Nov, 16:07

No, the parking at Charlbury station is not only for rail users. It's instead for those who pay the appropriate fee. On Tuesdays to Thursdays, the car park is generally full during the day from around 10  am. 

There are, however, spaces in the evenings, on Mondays and Fridays and also at the weekends. Charlbury (esp. The Bull and The Bell) should do a lot more to direct people to the station car park, rather than to the Spendlove Car Park. 

I do suspect that the station car park will become even more heavily used now that the main Oxford Station Car Park can only be accessed by paying the congestion charge. OCC have advised drivers to use Didcot or Oxford Parkway instead. But there is limited parking at Oxford Parkway, so it will be interesting to see how this settles down (not well, I suspect).

Interestingly, when I used Oxford P&R this week, the ANPR enforcement teams were out in force. I bet they were dishing out tickets to drivers who were using the train station and who didn't realise that the car park zones and tickets for the Oxford Parkway station and the Oxford Parkway Bus Park and Ride are not interchangeable. Watch out everyone who opts for Oxford Parkway Station and also the P&R.

Sat 8 Nov, 09:28

Surely the parking at the station is privately owned and is only for use of people using the train? I also understand that from previous posts on here that the station carpark is regularly full anyway so not sure what the idea of signs would solve?

Sat 8 Nov, 08:01

 Why are there no signs?  Every town you visit has long stay parking a bit further away than short term.  Long term is cheaper than short term to encourage those staying days and nights to use it.  Some towns have a free half hour ticket in the short term enough to pop into a shop.  Why is Charlbury different?  The station car park has been underused since the pandemic.  Where there has been free parking in small towns it has been funded by the chamber of commerce. Maybe local businesses should be paying for set places?  Maybe the Spendlove businesses/charities with car parks need to control their parking for their customers only?  Parking costs money and there isn’t anyone who doesn’t expect to pay for it.  Long term parking shouldn’t be funded by local taxpayers.  It’s a cost of using a car.

Totally agree Harriet.  The pavement needs to be wider and better lit.  Might there be any S106 money available?  Those of us who walk will feel safer for that.  Lots of people do walk there you have to walk in the road to pass people walking in the opposite direction.  Constantly walking on and off the pavement.

And other’s should stop labelling people “anti car lobby” to divide and undermine.  We’re all car users here.  

Fri 7 Nov, 11:01

Lovely. Walking down to the station at 10pm at night/5am in the morning when it's icy. I'm sure it sounds perfect for those people who aren't working at those times or are retired, but if you are it'll add an extra 5-10 minutes walk. Maybe the town council would commit to making sure the pavement on Dyers Hill was properly gritted and safe at those times 

Fri 7 Nov, 08:29

This is a simple idea - blue parking signs at the entries to the town directing people to the town’s only longer stay car park at the station.  There aren’t any and this morning at 7am just when people are coming to work, it was ⅔’s empty.  Then if it’s always full the rail networks will want another layer on it.  The existing blue signs direct people to the Spendlove.  The local council tax shouldn’t be paying for longer term parking.

Mon 3 Nov, 22:36

This suggestion doesn't stop train users parking in town instead of at the station.

Mon 3 Nov, 10:50

That would make so much more sense, Simon, I never quite understood why restrictions are in place during the day, when residents are mostly away anyway. By reversing it, small businesses would not be affected during the hours most are operating. Evening restrictions might also curb mad Bull customer parking.

Mon 3 Nov, 10:04

We have often said that this parking scheme could be completely reversed. Parking resriction could be applied from 6pm - 8am so those returning home from work can park by their homes and no restrictions throughout the day which would allow workers and visitors to park without worrying about time restrictions. 

Sun 2 Nov, 08:11

To maximise utilisation of roadside parking, during Mon-Fri 8:00 - 5:00 & Sat 8:00 - 12:00 all residential permit limitations should instead become residential + 2-hour time limit.

Thu 30 Oct, 15:27

I have had clients (from Witney) who have gone home instead of attending my class (which they'd paid for) at the Community Centre because they were unable to find a parking spot, either in the CCC parking or the Spendlove Centre parking areas. 

Nor were they able to find parking on the street areas, which were either full all the way up to the Enstone Rd crossing, or because the spaces available were permit parking only. 

It's not good.

Thu 30 Oct, 15:03

I had the same experience as Hamish today but I don't have much hope that our councillors will make a sensible decision. I think we will have to accept that the majority of residents & businesses will be disadvantaged to the benefit of the minority of central residents and the Bull

Thu 30 Oct, 11:11

The other option is to let businesses apply for permits. Currently they are not allowed so are having to park at the co-op. Goodness knows where they will park if these new proposals are bought in. 

Thu 30 Oct, 08:10

Yesterday (Wednesday) around lunchtime I observed that the Co-op park was full with car queuing, waiting for a space and then no time limited spaces within the centre of town, but there were at least 12 resident permit spaces free at this same time, so 12+ potentially lost customers to local businesses. Surely an immediate and sensible solution is to change all the permit only to permit plus time limited, even if just within business hours?

Sun 5 Oct, 19:00 (last edited on Mon 6 Oct, 06:58)

This thread seems to have gone – as they do – into a different discussion.

 Can I bring it back to Becky & Debi's opening question?  Which is important if you want to keep local services going...   

Charlbury is designated under WODC’s Local Plan (which runs to 2031) as a…

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Tue 30 Sep, 11:56 (last edited on Tue 30 Sep, 11:57)

Announced at the Labour Party Conference: WMT will transfer from Transport UK on 1 Feb 2026 (already announced); GTR will transfer from Govia (Go-Ahead/Keolis) on 31 May 2026; Chiltern and GWR will transfer (from Arriva and FirstGroup respectively) later in 2026 (specific dates not announced).

Avanti, Cross-Country and EMR are likely to transfer in 2027. Apparently, Cross-Country (the worst!) can't be transferred until October 2027 at the earliest. 

Mon 29 Sep, 07:41 (last edited on Mon 29 Sep, 13:11)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/when-will-my-local-train-operator-be-nationalised/

The above report lists the end dates of rail franchise contracts and the end of core time after which their contracts can be ended with notice.  GWR have already passed the contract core time.

How about a resident funded bid to finance a second storey on the station car park?  There are good returns on car parking.  

Tue 23 Sep, 14:56

And if you want an even weirder example, the concourse at Oxford station is managed by GWR, while the roof of the station is Network Rail's responsibility 

Tue 23 Sep, 11:08

I suppose the key point is that with Labour plans to transfer the franchises to GBR as they come up for renewal, GWR will not have a long term view on income generation and therefore we need an independent assessment of the cost of another layer on the car park, not to rely on GWR who will not wish to do it.

Tue 23 Sep, 10:40

It’s complicated. GWR is the ‘Station Facility Owner’. The station freehold is owned by Network Rail but leased to GWR. There are various forms of station lease (some very long) – I’m not sure which one Charlbury is, but regardless, GWR as leaseholder is the company responsible for car parks, whereas Network Rail was responsible for the platform extensions.

The rail industry is absolutely accursed when it comes to this sort of split – there is a whole arbitration case about whether a peacock is a “small bird” (in which case the train operator has to fork out for delays caused by hitting one) or a “large bird” (in which case it’s Network Rail’s fault for not putting up fencing).

Tue 23 Sep, 10:24

Thank you Hamish.  It was a real spaghetti dish of propaganda.  I wondered why they repaired the station itself but I supposed that they did it with Network Rail funding and approval, simply because it was listed.  My spell check keeps changing Network Rail to Network Raid !

Tue 23 Sep, 09:56

Unless GWR have purchased the land recently, which I doubt, then Alice you are correct. Network rail own the railway lines and station land. There's an interesting map of collated information here: https://map.whoownsengland.org/ (click on Network Rail in the map legend).

The ownership of the land at the stations is the same reason that enforcement of the parking charges come under Railway Byelaws (different to private car parks).

Tue 23 Sep, 06:31 (last edited on Tue 23 Sep, 07:11)

Sorry Liz I had assumed that they only borrow the infrastructure because they only franchise to run the rail service.  Network Rail own all the infrastructure and pay for most of the trains I understand.  They must have bought the surrounding land. What an odd business decision.  Makes taking back control of the lines a bit more complicated when their franchise ends.  I had to remind myself of ownership structure because it was such a stupid thing to tell the public it had been privatised.  

Mon 22 Sep, 22:22 (last edited on Mon 22 Sep, 22:25)

The land belongs to GWR not GBR/Network Rail. GWR own land around the stations in  Hanborough and Kingham as well and are working on plans for extra parking at both stations, and we have explored all possible options at Charlbury station with them.  But then what do they or I know.......

Mon 22 Sep, 16:19

Agreed Hamish.  GWR only manage the land as a car park under the terms of their contract I presume. The land still belongs to us, or GB Rail I suppose we are called now.  We have a longer view than GWR and it is in our interests that this land be more intensively used.   Taking additional green space to use as car parking is the wrong solution. 

Oxford City built a two storey car park in Opens Meadow over a weekend. Bicester Village built a two storey car park with no problem.  Maybe we shouldn't have asked GWR - we should have asked Network Rail/GBR.

Mon 22 Sep, 13:33

I believe GWR are making excuses rather than being genuinely interested in solutions. 

It wouldn't cost millions and with thoughtful design there would only be a handful of spaces lost, for the addition of 50 - 60 extra spaces. A car park design specialist budgets this £600-£720k, though even adding 50% contingency this still isn't millions.

However, what would it benefit GWR? They only get a proportion of the revenue with APCOA managing the car park on their behalf, and would it result in 50-60 more train ticket sales? I'm not sure they're really that bothered, so they'll inflate cost estimates to avoid having to do anything.

Mon 22 Sep, 10:39 (last edited on Mon 22 Sep, 10:41)

The cost of adding an extra layer to the parking at the station was recently estimated by GWR to be in the millions, while delivering little extra parking space because of the need for ramps in both directions.  The Spendlove could possibly be reconfigured to add a few extra space, which is what WODC are assessing. 

Mon 22 Sep, 08:09 (last edited on Mon 22 Sep, 08:10)

Other ideas - widen the pavements at the bottom of  Browns Lane, place bollards down the edge and make the road one bus width/one SUV wide.

More from me - chevron style parking down Church Street, the only street wide enough. Put another layer on the station car park in the dip. It wouldn’t be visible, The Bull already run a pick up service for visitors who struggle with walking short distances.

The Spendlove car park owned by WODC has no extra space to magic up. Disabled spaces are needed and parking bay sizes need to be increased not decreased because of the choices people are making in vehicle design and purchase. Parking for the community centre, vet, dentist, doctors etc is theirs and should be kept theirs.  We’ve already lost a valuable recycling facility to the motor vehicle.  Access to all businesses and public facilities by all people, not just a select few, needs protecting.

Fri 19 Sep, 18:10 (last edited on Fri 19 Sep, 18:11)

I have asked the Town Council to consider adding Becky and Debi's suggestion to the list of changes to the current scheme which was discussed last the last TC meeting and which is being submitted to OCC officers.  Which by the way already includes more permit-free parking on Brown's Lane and near the cemetery, another place where people coming into the town need to be able to park.  WODC are going to be reviewing the arrangements at the Spendlove, which they own, to see if more spaces can be made there.

Fri 19 Sep, 18:08

Richard makes a good point Posting on the forum gives us an outlet but direct feedback is the best way to help local businesses

Fri 19 Sep, 15:41 (last edited on Fri 19 Sep, 15:41)

I’m not sure any of this is particularly helpful to Becky and Debi’s original point.

Changing the one-hour restriction on Sheep Street to three hours (like Market Street) seems very doable.

OCC certainly do listen to consultation responses – I was reading earlier today that the latest Witney High Street plans have been revised following feedback from businesses along the street. There are several OCC staff who live in Charlbury, so it isn’t the case that they can’t imagine “a town without regular public transport and multiple car parks”. (Even though Charlbury surely does have regular public transport!)

If you think the change is worth making, then do send feedback as Becky and Debi ask.

Fri 19 Sep, 09:31

A referendum and a consultation are not the same thing

Thu 18 Sep, 19:07

Simon's argument if true would mean that there was not a majority who voted for Brexit. 

Thu 18 Sep, 15:31

Important point from Alan, and agree as a social scientist. These stats also seem to be in line with comments on local media eg Oxford Mail and BBC Oxfordshire, most of which were objections. The same point applies of course to the Charlbury parking consultation.

Thu 18 Sep, 12:21

I don't have any particular views to offer on the scheme under discussion, but as someone whose degree involved a significant amount of statistics I would just like to take issue with the idea that because only 1% of the population responded, the answers cannot be seen as representative of the views of the population as a whole.  This is a fallacy.  In terms of statistical reliability, the absolute number of respondents is far more important than the proportion of the population.  (What does matter is the likelihood of selection bias, eg are opponents of the scheme more likely to respond than supporters, or vice versa.  I suspect that is likely to be less of an issue for this particular consultation than for many.)

Thu 18 Sep, 10:48

Regarding Oxford, there were 7,165 respondents, "In the survey, 66% of people said there should not be a charge, while 74% said it would negatively affect them.", As of June 2023, the population of Oxford City (ONS figure) was 165,200. The population for Oxfordshire is give as 763,200. Therefore the actual figure of people who responded negatively, is a very small number when compared to the population of the city or the county. Statistically it is not a representative figure and it should not really be stated that it is i.e. it is not "an overwhelming rejection". If anything, the figures show that a majority of people are not bothered by the proposal and subsequent costs. Of course that will be seen as the 'silent majority who have no voice' etc.

Thu 18 Sep, 08:15

I would suggest that the businesses affected write to their local councillors on OCC as part of the problem is that OCC policies prevent businesses having permits. Noone seems to have realised this until the scheme was so far in progress that noone wanted to pull it. There’s no reason that OCC cant change it, even if they change it just for Charlbury, Staff working in OCC probably can’t imagine a town without regular public transport and multiple car parks. 

Wed 17 Sep, 14:10

The long and short of it is that the people in charge of the scheme do not care about the normal people like all the businesses commenting on this. They are only interested about their own pockets, and the people who bought houses with out driveways who now decide to moan about parking don't care either. 

Nothing will happen whenever the "review" takes place. All consultations are a waste of time. Look at the new Oxford congestion charge they have shoehorned in despite the overwhelming rejection on the consultation. If the council want to do something they will do so without regard for the people it impacts the most. 

I do feel sorry for all the people this ridiculous scheme will impact. 

Wed 17 Sep, 13:47

I think Becky's concerns are valid and her suggestions are sensible. I really hope these issues and concerns are taken into consideration by the people in charge of this scheme and positive changes are made in due course. Keeping a business running during these times is tricky enough, and especially hard for small local businesses and self-employed tradespeople. 

Please let's support the businesses/ tradespeople that we have in Charlbury!  

Wed 17 Sep, 11:35

With traffic wardens giving out tickets as late as 9.30 in the evening a visitor from Chadlington received a fine as missed the new signage!
As Christine mentioned less mobile folk now struggle to complete visits into town. Perhaps they could issue some ‘in car badges’ for residents or those working around town. They could then use the several empty resident spaces, as whole areas seem ‘blocked’ now.

I had to park on double yellow lines to collect urgent prescription from Averose, stress is not good.

My other gripe is that with spaces for 3 cars, many are just parking across them, leaving half a car width free either side, so… frustrating.  These spaces need making as 3 cars.

Tue 16 Sep, 19:17

My car is my toolbox,  so if I work in charlbury town centre I need to park my car where I work. 

This has become almost impossible since the new restrictions have been introduced. I'm sure after the years trial nothing will change as those people who have permits are perfectly happy. 

Apart from using a hand trolley which has been  smugly suggested by permit holders, I'm struggling every day to park for work. Trade permits maybe..

Mon 15 Sep, 07:53

It's not just visitors who need longer than 3 hours in the Coop car park, it's also locals who live outside the very centre of the town, especially those with mobility problems but who don't qualify for Blue Badge parking.

This includes many elderly Charlbury residents and younger people with temporary disabilities (eg broken bones). It's already difficult enough! 

Mon 15 Sep, 07:34

I have also been told that it would be difficult if I wanted to park to do regular garden maintenance as residents aren't provided with spare permits to allow for something like this?

Mon 15 Sep, 05:55 (last edited on Mon 15 Sep, 09:36)

I firmly believe that there needs to be parking somewhere so you can stay longer than 3 hours. I appreciate your suggestion that local businesses would be looked after with a permit scheme, but what about people visiting the town who need to stay longer? As local businesses are not entitled to visitors permits to issue to people, what about an electrician for example who are working all day for you?

Sun 14 Sep, 21:51

Should this actually say “maximum” of 3 hours. . . ?

To prevent the Co-op carpark being misused by commuters and non-permit holders this needs to be restricted, minimum of 3 hours.

Sun 14 Sep, 20:57

Hello Charlbury,

Becky and Debi here, co owners of Clarimore Beautique - Sheep Street.

Since opening the salon in 2017 parking hasn’t been easy and as popularity grew parking became more difficult. Although the new restrictions have helped stop the commuters unfortunately we find the restrictions too limiting for our…

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