Photo ID will be required to vote in next year’s election (Debate)

Thu 9 Feb 2023, 12:10 (last edited on Thu 9 Feb 2023, 12:16)

But Rod, when you say, ‘ It will also most obviously affect older people…as one Tory MP was heard to say recently 'it's only the old who'll vote for us now.', that really doesn’t hold as a problem for them as an accepted form of ID is an Older Person’s Bus Pass. It is one of the top Electoral Commission list of ID

My mum laughs about her bus pass photo as it isn’t easily identified as her. But maybe it would be accepted anyway. She has other forms of photo ID she can use.

Thu 9 Feb 2023, 11:19 (last edited on Thu 9 Feb 2023, 11:20)

As quoted elsewhere, 'democracy dies by a thousand cuts', of which this is but one (several others spring to mind!).  I don't believe there is any evidence of significant voter fraud in this country (apart from some events in Tower Hamlets a few years ago) nor therefore of a general need for photo id.  The requirement will obviously affect poorer people who might otherwise have no need for a photo id - and who, if they vote at all are less likely to vote Conservative.

But hey, every cloud....  It will also most obviously affect older people.  And as one Tory MP was heard to say recently 'it's only the old who'll vote for us now.'

Wed 1 Feb 2023, 08:42 (last edited on Wed 1 Feb 2023, 09:28)

Hannen: you already have 3 forms of acceptable ID; your driving licence, a current passport and an OAP bus pass. Railcards don't count for anyone, so that's irrelevant. Out-of-date versions of the first 3 would be OK as long as the photo still looks like you. As you are over 70, your driving licence will include a photo. Driving licences without photos won't be able to be used.

If you can't get to the Memorial Hall to vote, the party you intend to vote for should be able to offer you a lift. Or apply for a postal vote, if that's what you prefer.

The postal vote application form is here: https://www.westoxon.gov.uk/media/zhqnt0ed/postal-voting-application.pdf

You need first to make sure you are registered to vote. That's here: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Wed 1 Feb 2023, 05:04

I have a current passport  and DL.  I also have an Old Man's bus pass, but since the pandemic, no Old Man's railcard.  But the hire car companies let me use a car from time to time.  They use a biometric scan.

My wife and I have given up our car to help the environment.

Will my ID suffice?  Can someone give me a lift to the Polling station?  Or should I try to get the postal vote and if so, how?

Otherwise I shall be disenfranchised.

Thank you.

Tue 31 Jan 2023, 17:36

Your message to get organised is well appreciated given that you have just explained to us that this offensive legislation treats different groups of people differently and doesn't address it's goal, which is to prevent voter fraud because it doesn't address postal voters.  Additionally, it is quite possible to register to vote in more than one place if you have your primary address in London and your partner has their primary address in Charlbury.  Photo-ID won't address that either.   I am sure it must be changed because it is bad legislation.  

In the meantime we can save ourselves the inconvenience of photo-ID and the new level of distrust at the polling booth by getting a postal vote.  I've had one for years and it's much more convenient.  Thoroughly recommended.

Tue 31 Jan 2023, 16:20

Alice: those using a proxy to vote are inconvenienced, as for the very first time the proxy requires photo ID even though the voter does not.

Encouraging more people to use a proxy to vote is likely to play into the Government's hands as there are current proposals to restrict the number of persons a proxy can represent. This is likely to seriously affect those -- for example those living in care homes -- who need to rely on a proxy in order to vote.

There are also Government proposals to tighten up on the ID requirements for postal voting, and I'm not sure that your recommended strategy doesn't also play into their hands. In fact, I think that postal voting is likely to be considerably higher this year, given that voting takes place on the Thursday before the Coronation (on the Saturday) and the subsequent Bank Holiday (on the Monday). And the need for photo ID in order to vote in person will also add to the numbers.

Whatever photo ID is used, young people and others also need to first register to vote! This also applies to postal voters of course.

Tue 31 Jan 2023, 14:29

The majority of (a very small amount of) voter fraud involves postal or proxy ballots.   Second home owners perhaps?  It seems that these are the only voters who are not being inconvenienced by these new restrictions.

My suggestion is for us all to apply for postal ballots.

Tue 31 Jan 2023, 10:14 (last edited on Tue 31 Jan 2023, 10:42)

Michael, if you are querying the phrasing about postal voting, then later down the WODC page it says: 

"Does this affect postal voting

Postal voters already provide signature and date of birth identifiers and will not be affected by these changes. ... "

The WODC page is here: https://www.westoxon.gov.uk/about-the-council/elections-and-voting/voter-id-what-you-need-to-do-for-the-may-2023-elections/

Those…

Long post - click to read full text

Tue 31 Jan 2023, 09:38

Christine, Liz and Andy G:

Whatever the law may say, the websites of both WODC and the Electoral Commission are quite clear that, in the words of the Electoral Commission,:

"From 4 May 2023, voters in England will need to show photo ID to vote at polling stations in some elections.

This will apply to:

Local elections

Police and Crime Commissioner elections

UK parliamentary by-elections

Recall petitions

From October 2023 it will also apply to UK General elections."

WODC recommends on its site that voters without approved photo ID apply for a Voter Authority Certificate to https://voter-authority-certificate.service.gov.uk/ and should do so by April 25 

Christine: can you check your source, because either that source or WODC/the Electoral Commission needs correcting.

Mon 30 Jan 2023, 18:02 (last edited on Tue 31 Jan 2023, 10:36)

Although photo ID won't be required for postal voters for the May local elections, changes to the postal voting regulations are currently being considered, and are likely to be in place by the time of the next General Election.  So it's worth getting photo ID sorted out now, rather than simply relying on postal voting. 

The new ID requirements for the May elections only apply in England, not in Scotland or Wales. It was already the case in Northern Ireland, but they have more possibilities for young people's ID there! 

Out-of-date passports and driving licences count, as long as one is still recognisable from the photo. Also bus passes for older and disabled persons (but not young people), and no national rail cards (for any age) and no student or library cards. 

Young people have time to apply for a PASS card (proof of age card) including via the Post Office, if they don't have that already and don't want to go for the free ID provided by West Oxfordshire. And older voters have also time to apply for the bus pass -- which has rather less strict photo requirements, I think.  

Mon 30 Jan 2023, 17:58

Do you have a link Liz where people can apply for ID from the council? 

Perhaps you could ask the schools and colleges to encourage their year 13 students who are 18 or turn 18 before May to apply?

Mon 30 Jan 2023, 17:12 (last edited on Mon 30 Jan 2023, 17:21)

The people most likely to be unable to vote because they don't have photo ID are young people who haven't yet got their own passport or driving license, and people who are not well enough off to own a car or go on foreign holidays. In other words, the people least likely to vote Tory.  They can get an ID card from the local council but how many will bother?  I'm not generally inclined towards conspiracy theories, but there is absolutely no evidence of electoral fraud at the polling booths, so I'm afraid I can only assume that this appalling government is introducing this because they believe it will benefit them.

The next local election in Charlbury is in May when Andy will be up for re-election  Please don't play into the Tories' hands by refusing to vote.  We certainly don't want them to win here by default.

Mon 30 Jan 2023, 16:23

I won't be voting in the local elections if a photo ID is required. Not because I don't have one, but to reduce the turnout. If there is one thing politicians hate, its being ignored!

Tue 13 Dec 2022, 18:24

Today the Lords have argued the government into instituting an inquiry into how the new law may be applied.  So I think that's the start of putting it on the shelf.

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 09:49

Thanks Amanda, I have taken a look

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 22:20

The WODC website states that postal voters won’t be affected!  

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 19:15 (last edited on Mon 2 Jan 2023, 16:33)

Thanks for adding detail to the inequality of ID that can be used Richard.

As Colin says, let’s hope the House of Lords puts a stop to it.

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 15:24

Shocking, outrageous, blatant voter suppression. The sort of tactics that the Trumpian Republican Party employ in the US. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent in this country....

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 13:58

Pre-emptively moving myself to the Debate board because the whole thing is outrageous.

An Older Person’s Bus Pass will be eligible ID. A Young Person’s Railcard won’t.

A 60+ Oyster Card will be eligible ID. An 18+ Student Oyster Card won’t.

It’s so transparent I’d laugh were it not actually happening.

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 13:36

No, I didn't know this, Miranda.  I'm not sure what other options you are thinking of, but I don't think I have any photo ID now that my passport has expired.  My driving license is still an old-fashioned paper one....

I thought there was a general view that we wanted more people voting rather than fewer.

Sun 11 Dec 2022, 12:52

I knew this and I have been following it and agree with you.

Hopefully the Liberal Democrats attempt to kill off the plans in the House of Lords this week using a “fatal motion” will work ( link ). If not then a local demonstration could be planed if enough people felt strongly enough about it.

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 14:19 (last edited on Sun 11 Dec 2022, 09:21)

I read in the weekend i newspaper that to vote in next May’s election we will have to show photo ID. Did you know?
I feel this is wrong and creates inequality. There are many people without passports or driving licenses. There are other options, but fewer for young people. It puts a barrier to voting for many.
Please move to the debate section if needed, thanks