Graffiti (Debate)

Thu 19 May 2022, 21:35 (last edited on Thu 19 May 2022, 22:09)

It's funny how this topic has become quite personal and also seems to be a vent against pensioners!  I'm sad it has come to this!

Sorry but all I was asking was that the person doing the tagging on the bus shelters and the bins be persuaded to stop.  However, it seems that several Charlbury residents approve and support it as a means of artistic expression of bored teenagers - although James has suggested it may be the work of a 75 year old!

Ok, rural life can be a bit difficult for teenagers because of perhaps the lack of dynamic events or activities and the lack of of transport to them, ( but there are opportunities offered in town), however, it is no excuse to deface public property with white paint tagging, which takes money and time to remove (unlike stickers etc mentioned previously), and which upsets not only some pensioners, but those who like and respect this town.

Thu 19 May 2022, 17:57

Phil, I’ll address that directly.

Thu 19 May 2022, 16:07

Just saying: James Norris seems to have been hogging these pages for ages. There does appear to be a lot of ego involved. Give us a rest mate....

Thu 19 May 2022, 14:54

Yes give teenaged an outlet but NOT a criminal offence.  Just hope you don’t have children because the example you are setting is totally wrong.  

Thu 19 May 2022, 14:51

There you go again James.  You just have to resort to rudeness and I can assure you I will knock spots off the countries I have both lived in and travelled to.  No not Judith Chalmers but my job entailed extensive travel.  I guess you are one of the people who are never going to age, never going to be a pensioner and live forever.  Think again unless of course you pop off before then.

Thu 19 May 2022, 14:39 (last edited on Thu 19 May 2022, 14:47)

😂😂😂😂 course you have, Judith Chalmers.

I’ve lived here for years and love it, but I’m not a 14-year old boy bored out of my mind. The pandering to pensioners is ridiculous in contrast. Give teenagers an outlet.

Thu 19 May 2022, 14:18

James…. You have no idea whatsoever.  Little bubble? The people I know here are probably more well travelled than you and no I am not talking about two weeks in the Costa del Sol. Quite frankly I’m surprised you live here with all your negatives.

Thu 19 May 2022, 13:51 (last edited on Thu 19 May 2022, 13:53)

It doesn’t, it highlights the disparity of funds and attention to one specific demographic who are out of touch with the modern world in their little Charlbury bubble.

Thu 19 May 2022, 13:45

James… oh come on, advertisements for a marmalade sale, concerts, fetes etc are hardly unsightly. Also you seem to be missing the point, these posters can be removed without any damage and as I said they serve the community.  Luckily there are plenty of younger people who do not have a problem with the signs especially as they are aimed at people with young families. Next you’ll be moaning about the hedgehog posters which clearly were not drawn by the elderly and are encoring the young to look after this species.
As for graffiti, it is vandalism and illegal. Clearly you seem to be in agreement with this person/people illegally defacing bus stops and now bins, maybe you should post your address and welcome them to deface your property. 
Regarding you comment Disneyland for pensioners, don’t you think that is rather a rude thing to say. Is it really necessary to resort to rudeness? We are debating a point about something which is illegal and rudeness is totally unnecessary especially as it weakens your point.

Thu 19 May 2022, 10:59 (last edited on Thu 19 May 2022, 11:20)

Pauline, deliberately so to illustrate a point; graffiti regularly is created to serve a community, maybe just a different one to yours so you can’t decipher the message. Or it might not be and just a joke on a pub toilet door, tag on a bus stop or carve on a tree, nothing sinister.

Those posters in no way serve the community the person who is likely doing the tagging (for all we know it might be a 75-year old doing it). They serve families with younger kids on occasion and old folk with regularity. They’re as unsightly to some as a squiggle on a bus stop, because they’re a reminder that the place is set up to be Disneyland for pensioners, rather than reflect the interests and culture of a modern youth. Maybe the mystery tagger should be targeting these with ‘What about us?’

Thu 19 May 2022, 09:51

This thread is verbal vandalism 😂

Thu 19 May 2022, 09:43

James, that’s rather a bizarre comment.  These posts tied to lampposts are for the sake of Charlbury’s community and can be removed, they are certainly not defacing anything.  

Thu 19 May 2022, 09:34

Harriet comparing smoking cannabis to graffiti is like comparing apples to pears.  Those who chose to smoke have a choice, their life, their decision, harming their bodies and illegal.  However graffiti is totally different, it is defacing property which is not theirs, it is vandalism, unsightly and illegal and all because some say they are bored. 

Thu 19 May 2022, 07:57 (last edited on Thu 19 May 2022, 07:58)

Likewise nobody complains about the badly designed posters advertising some dreary piano recital/flower workshop/marmalade sale cable tied to lamp posts and railings all over the place for months on end.

Thu 19 May 2022, 07:12

Also, nobody complained about the ER stickers round the town. Is that because it's politically/socially acceptable to Charlbury? It's still damage to property. 

Thu 19 May 2022, 06:57

Precisely. But kids smoking cannabis has been going on for years and no-one has seen fit to complain about it. Presumably because it doesn't impact them. Double standards. 

Thu 19 May 2022, 06:45

I don't understand some people's logic. Graffiti is illegal, cannabis is illegal.  Surely all illegal activity should be discouraged?  For those who like Graffiti, maybe they could volunteer the use of a wall on their house or their garage door?  I don't want to walk around our beautiful town having to see someone's "tag" just because they are bored with nothing else to do!

Thu 19 May 2022, 06:23

So presumably similarly all the kids who walk round with cannabis should be stopped because it's illegal and they might move on to harder drugs and we don't want that in Charlbury? Or don't we care about that because we can't see it? IMO if you're going to complain about a bit of tagging you should also be worried about the drugs. 

Wed 18 May 2022, 21:50

This is the only art that looks good on BT boxes 

http://coastalcurrents.org.uk/bt-boxes/

Wed 18 May 2022, 21:40

You have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. I’m sure whoever has been putting a few tags around the place is also lovely to his gran.

Wed 18 May 2022, 20:07

I have 6 grandchildren aged between 11-20 who would not consider defacing a bus shelter or people's property!!

I have lived in Charlbury for 11 years and have been pleased there's no tagging here like in Brighton or Banbury where my daughters live.

Charlbury is a small town , which, in the 'old days' would have had social discipline applied to those who disrespect our lovely town. 

Sorry, but I do not consider myself living in an antechamber to the after life either Andrew, being very involved with the youth of this world!!

Wed 18 May 2022, 19:36

James I am not in your category, I have lived in two other countries, travelled the world with my job.  Graffiti is vandalism pure and simple.

Wed 18 May 2022, 19:34

It's a shame it's not "Banksy" because then it would be an awesome tourist attraction!

Wed 18 May 2022, 19:26

Just for the record, Charlbury does currently have active Scouts and Guides groups, and a youth club at the Community Centre, all of which are supported by dedicated volunteers. But these are primarily attended by kids towards the end of primary school or in their early teens - as they get older, this sort of adult-organised stuff is of less interest, as James says. 

Of course graffiti is often a form of vandalism, but let's not let the generation gap (or two?) get in the way of some empathy - there are always reasons for people's behaviour which are worth trying to understand and address. And Charlbury is incredibly lucky as to how little social bother it receives. Let's not have the reason for that being the town becoming purely an antechamber to the afterlife.

Wed 18 May 2022, 17:23

John I’m sorry but I tend to disagree with your response.  It is not normal behaviour, it is the behaviour of someone who does not respect the property of others.  Someone who could in the future deface not just bus stops but other areas of beautiful Charlbury. Property which does not belong to you should not be defaced by anyone.

Wed 18 May 2022, 17:19

Lesley not mental health issues but pure vandalism.

Wed 18 May 2022, 17:18

I sorry but I tend to disagree with those who state that graffiti is a way of youngsters expressing themselves or that those concerned have nothing to do in Charlbury. For me it is simply an act of vandalism and next it will be on garage doors.  Are you happy that your garage door could be the next target?  I’m sure your opinion would change if it were your property and remember graffiti is a criminal act.

Wed 18 May 2022, 16:02 (last edited on Wed 18 May 2022, 16:02)

A slippery slope. First a squiggle on a bus stop, next an international cartel being run out of the community centre storage cupboard. ‘Turn to crime’. Have you actually heard yourself, Alan? Behave.

Glenda, all those things are good and well, but as I said down the thread, need to come from them. There’s absolutely no point putting on something they have no interest in, like scouts, guides and AmDram. It’s music, social media, gaming.

Wed 18 May 2022, 15:15

I am confident that a large majority of bored kids do not turn to crime, James.

Wed 18 May 2022, 15:14

Ah, the age old problem ! When we came (in 1979----OK when dinosaurs roamed the earth) there was, as I remember, a youth club which was in the Shed---possibly two nights a week. After a few years it died, partly because fewer and fewer people went and partly because whichever local authority funded it removed the money. There was also a very successful young drama group, also in the Shed, run by four heroically energetic and talented people. It was very well attended and put on great shows and even went to Edinburgh two or three times. In the end that stopped because, I suppose, the leaders were exhausted. A few young people have been involved in CADS productions, mainly pantomimes but obviously it's not really their thing. The canoe club existed then and is still going but I suppose the main activities for that age group are the football and cricket clubs which do  a great job and are now (of course) for both girls and boys. Sad the days of scouts and guides are no more (or are they ?). Perhaps something green is needed ?

Wed 18 May 2022, 12:38 (last edited on Wed 18 May 2022, 12:49)

😂😂😂 no it isn’t, we’re not dealing with the Bloods and Crips. It denotes boredom and being a kid. I don’t mean to be deliberately rude, but I swear some people have never been out of this pretty West Oxfordshire bubble.

Wed 18 May 2022, 11:27 (last edited on Wed 18 May 2022, 11:27)

There is a world of difference between graffiti art and tagging. The latter is most often used to denote territory unfortunately..

Wed 18 May 2022, 11:11

As a parent of a teenager, I agree with a lot of the points made here. There is lots for lots of age groups here, but that demographic is really under represented, apart from a few sports. For my daughter's friends, about the only thing they do in Charlbury is play in the river. Otherwise, it's a journey to Chippy or Oxford for activities.

Wed 18 May 2022, 10:53

Such a sensible answer, James (if I may say so).  I love it in Charlbury, and moved here deliberately .. because I'm retired.  I'd have thought twice about moving here with teenage children:  there is so very little for them.

And you're absolutely right:  graffiti is entirely normal behaviour, and the fact that it annoys people like us is part of the point of it!

Wed 18 May 2022, 09:09 (last edited on Wed 18 May 2022, 22:10)

It’s something that happens the world over, so nothing to worry about too much. If bus shelters are being targeted it might indicate a friend of somebody local waiting for transport back to another community (with 1 an hour they’ll have significant dwell time). Or somebody local who is bored, which is understandable given there’s not a huge amount to do for the 13-21 demographic you’d think are the most likely (but not necessarily are) behind it.

Something for the ‘Town Council’ to consider: Rather than think ‘oh this is bad, please stop’ we should perhaps take this as a cue to look at things which might distract somebody from doing so. Even then, it might still happen from time to time, because that’s what kids with pens do. Through the entire ‘What’s On’ there’s nothing which is aimed at that age group specifically as their own thing, rather than something to awkwardly cringe at if dragged along by parents. Similarly frustrating for them, given the Charlbury Festival is very arts focused, is there’s very little on that would appeal to that demographic. A ‘young writer’s workshop’ might vaguely be interesting, but it’s not especially cool or fun, more like a class in school. There’s no TikTok influencer session, new PS5 title walk through by a gamer or music production workshop to reflect their ‘arts’ interests.

Maybe a town youth council who can propose ideas of what they’d like to see would help, as any suggestions need to come from them, rather than be foisted upon them by a generation who are largely out of touch or never even knew what is cool (I’m including myself here).

Edit: ‘mental health issues and needs help’ 😂😂

Wed 18 May 2022, 08:40 (last edited on Wed 18 May 2022, 09:45)

I do wonder why this has just started. Is there an underlying cause. Maybe the person has mental health issues and needs help?

Wed 18 May 2022, 08:22

Yes, James it's tagging and the same one around town.  I'm glad the town council is aware - well of some of them at least, and trying to rectify the problem.

Tue 17 May 2022, 23:42

Town Council is aware.  The tags on Enstone Road have been removed, unless something has reappeared today.  Images of any graffiti should be reported to the police as criminal damage.

Tue 17 May 2022, 23:07

Also bus shelter at top of Enstone Road 😥

Tue 17 May 2022, 23:02

Are they any good or just tagging? Graffiti art should be encouraged in a designated space, so they can get good at least.

Tue 17 May 2022, 20:50

The bus shelter in Church street as well as the one at 5 ways.  I can't list the cabinets, sorry but at least 4 or 5 I noticed today.

Tue 17 May 2022, 20:24

:(

Which cabinets/bus shelters have they hit?

Tue 17 May 2022, 20:04

I am so sorry to see a graffiti artist seems to have descended on Charlbury spoiling the bus shelters as well as several of the green BT(?) cabinets.  Does anyone know if he or she is local?  If so, please advise him/her to stop!!