Road Closures in Chipping Norton after accident (Debate)

Thu 17 Mar 2022, 08:45 (last edited on Thu 17 Mar 2022, 11:48)

Just for reference. 

Thu 10 Mar 2022, 15:37 (last edited on Thu 10 Mar 2022, 15:39)

I have been told that the gentleman died from a heart attack and it was not a Road Traffic Accident 

And that the young lorry driver managed to slam his brakes on to avoid hitting him .

Tue 8 Mar 2022, 19:17

Sorry Emily, but one of the protocols of any forum is to stick to the subject matter of the thread, so to start your post with "Poor driving and speeding" was bang out of order IMHO.

Neither you nor I  know the exact circumstances of this tragic accident, that will be for the Police to establish. There is a worrying trend among keyboard warriors to blame the driver regardless, before the facts have been determined.

My comment about presumption of innocence related SOLELY to the incident that was the subject of this thread, YOU widened it to include other matters. 

If you wanted to open a wider discussion about road safety generally, maybe it would have been more appropriate to start another thread, on the main page or debate page?

Tue 8 Mar 2022, 18:18

In the spirit of IWD, I am very aware of the presumption of innocence, Philip so there is no need to shout at or patronise me. 

When I said "poor driving and speeding seem to be an increasing problem with pedestrians and cyclists usually being the ones to suffer" I was not only referring to the accident in Chipping Norton. I was referring to the deaths of two cyclists in Oxford, one of whom was a former colleague, and the injury to the child in Finstock, plus the many cyclist, pedestrian and vehicle accidents and fatalities in the last couple of years. 

Regardless, I very much doubt that "good driving and/or travelling the appropriate speed" led to these fatalities and injuries. 

Also as Katie said, a man has already been arrested for drug driving and for not holding a license for the death of Dr Felce at The Plain in Oxford, so I think the presumption of innocence can be questioned.

Even without these tragic and avoidable deaths, I can see when I walk around Charlbury or when I am in Oxford that speeding and poor driving has gotten worse since 2020. Vehicles travelling in and out of Charlbury via Banbury Hill rarely stick to the speed limit. Vehicles hardly ever indicate at the Enstone Crossroads. It is up to pedestrians to guess, which way they are going, and vehicles in Oxford are battling for dominance over each other and the cyclists and pedestrians on the roads. 

Mon 7 Mar 2022, 17:39

The road layout at the junction in Chippy is certainly 'a problem', and I agree that the recent Highway Code changes may have actually added to the uncertainty and made things worse. I have always thought that it should be a T-junction. I know the main road, the A44, is the continuous one with a right-angle bend, but I think the clarity of layout should be prioritized over the continuity of a road name.

Currently you can have traffic building up along West Street waiting for ages for a gap in both directions of the A44, or else traffic queueing up New Street behind someone waiting to turn right into West Street. A T-junction with traffic lights would sort that out, and incorporating the pedestrian crossing would, I think, ease impatience because you'd know that you were going to get your turn eventually.

Mon 7 Mar 2022, 17:21 (last edited on Mon 7 Mar 2022, 17:22)

Solutions not only unpopular with road users. What Chipping Norton needs is a bypass; but, as Philip said, the most obvious route goes via the Rollright Stones. This is one of the very few "dark" astronomy observational sites near here, and such a route would be unpopular with a lot of stargazers, as well as with those who simply enjoy the countryside or ancient monuments.

I see that debates about the road-crossing arrangements by Sainsbury's in Chippy have gone on at least since 1969, when there was lengthy questioning in Parliament about the widening of the pavement at the top of New Street and Market Place. The widening of the pavement must have occurred shortly before Sainsbury's supermarket was built, and after the older houses were demolished. At the time it was said that this was an unsatisfactory, unsafe and temporary solution -- with the possibility of a bypass going via the Rollright Stones already being put forward as a long-term solution.

I think it a mistake to compare the recent accident to a cyclist in Oxford with that of the pedestrian in Chippy. Crossing both West Street and New Street as a pedestrian near that junction in Chippy is a nightmare, especially given that the rights of way for traffic is not very clear to pedestrians. It's all too easy not to notice that the main road turns sharp right, and traffic carrying straight on should be signalling left. 

I can't help wondering whether the recent changes to the Highway Code might have made matters worse, and might have given pedestrians confidence about crossing those roads that is inappropriate. On the other hand, it was a very wet afternoon and visibility was also very poor. This means, very sadly, that there are a variety of possible causes for the Chippy accident.

Mon 7 Mar 2022, 16:03

The lady killed on the Plain last week was an Oxford scientist and it does seem to be that in that case the driver was at fault (although of course a court will decide). There was a Twitter thread put together by a journalist at the Oxford Mail on the tragic deaths of cyclists around Oxford and there do seem to be some common features and many of these go back many years. https://twitter.com/t_seaward/status/1500593507655901188. Where there are HGV's, pedestrians and cyclists mixing on and next to roads that are too narrow and not fit for purpose, these collisions will continue, but as ever the solutions are expensive and unpopular with a lot of road users.

Sun 6 Mar 2022, 21:40

"Poor driving and speeding" why not just jump to conclusions before TVP have a chance to issue a full statement. A fatal accident investigation will have been started

May I remind you that in this country the HGV driver is INNOCENT until proven guilty. Given the location of the RTC it is most unlikely that speeding was a cause. 

There is a traffic island, but it is quite intimidating to stand in the middle when an HGV is passing.

Chipping Norton has way more traffic issues than Charlbury and has long warranted a by-pass / HGV route, but the obvious one past the Rollright Stones involves no less than three counties (Glos, Warks and Oxon), 3 government economic regions (SW, SE and Midlands) and the corresponding Department of Transport Offices.

Thu 3 Mar 2022, 15:34

Poor driving and speeding seem to be an increasing problem with pedestrians and cyclists usually being the ones to suffer. In the span of a month, two cyclists were killed by lorries in Oxford. One outside Oxford Parkway Station and one on The Plain roundabout in central Oxford on Tuesday. I also understand a child was knocked over in Finstock in mid-February and ended up in hospital. 

Charlbury Speedwatch has done an amazing job collecting data as well as trying to deter potential drivers from speeding but I understand that there is limited support from the TVP and from WODC. There is also no incentives being offered to stop people speeding or driving badly. No one is going to care if they only receive letter informing them they have been caught speeding. People will only care if the financial cost to them speeding is high enough to impact them and/or points on their license stops them from being able to use their vehicle.

Wed 2 Mar 2022, 12:49

Here is the police appeal for witnesses and dashcam footage:

Thames Valley Police is appealing for witnesses and dash-cam footage following a road traffic collision in Chipping Norton yesterday afternoon (28/2) in which a man has tragically died.

At around 3.20pm, the man, who was a pedestrian in New Street at the junction with the A361 in Chipping Norton town centre was crossing a road when he was involved in a collision with a heavy goods vehicle.

The man, aged in his seventies, suffered serious injuries and very sadly died at the scene.

The driver of the HGV did not suffer any injuries and nobody has been arrested.

Investigating officer PC Phil Hanham of the Serious Collision Investigation Unit, based at Bicester, said: “This collision occurred in the middle of the afternoon in Chipping Norton town centre, and as a result, very sadly, a man has died of his injuries, despite the efforts of medical professionals and the public.

“I am appealing to anybody who was in the vicinity of Chipping Norton town centre yesterday who witnessed this collision to please contact Thames Valley Police, either by making a report online or by calling 101, quoting reference number 43220090418.

“If anybody was driving in the area and has dash-cam, I would ask you to please check this and get in touch with the force if it has captured the collision or the moments leading up to the collision.

“I would like to thank those who came to the aid of the man and their efforts in trying to help him.

“Although formal identification has not yet taken place, the man’s next of kin have been made aware and are being supported by specially trained officers.

“Our thoughts are with the man’s family and friends at this extremely difficult time.”

Wed 2 Mar 2022, 12:22

It was right on the corner by Sainsburys. I didn't see it happen, but I was there and I saw the aftermath.

Wed 2 Mar 2022, 11:19

It wasn't at the junction at the top of New Street, it was further down by the entrance to Sainsbury car park 

Wed 2 Mar 2022, 07:36

Very sad but this was an accident waiting to happen.  The road junction in question is dangerous as are the two mini-roundabouts at the other end of town.

Tue 1 Mar 2022, 13:23

A pedestrian in his 70s killed crossing the road near Sainsbury’s apparently: https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1498628850179313673. Very sad.

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 19:44

Fire engines, police ambulances etc.  local info 

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 18:15

Oxfordshire County Council has warned drivers through its travel account on Twitter (@OxonTravel) about a road closure on the High Street of Chipping Norton after a collision near to the Sainsbury's supermarket.

Thames Valley Police have closed the road in both directions between New Street northbound and at the double roundabout where the A361 and A44 meet southbound. West Street is closed.

TVP West Oxfordshire have also issued a warning to area motorists about the serious collision at the junction of the A361 and the A44 in Chipping Norton.

Stagecoach buses have been diverted and a number of road closures are in place.