Vaccination progress (Debate)

Tue 22 Jun 2021, 14:36 (last edited on Tue 22 Jun 2021, 18:10)

I surely cannot be alone in being rather puzzled by the attitude of the UK Government and devolved administrations to travel in the current circumstances. Many of us have had both jabs and are testing negative, yet cannot travel independently with minimal contact to somewhere abroad (less infected than the UK) where we will keep ourselves to ourselves. The UK government won't let us go and even if we did, we would have to jump through loads of hoops to get back into UK.

Contrast this with the Euro football events. Loads of "fans" (often without tickets) mingling together without masks or social distancing.Thousands of Scots travelling down to London yet Nicola Sturgeon wants to ban travel between Manchester and Scotland. Players celebrating goals in a totally inappropriate way and those who are supposedly in national team bubbles mingling together, Illogical and incomprehensible.

Wed 20 Jan 2021, 14:41

AIDS was a different sort of epidemic to COVID-19, at least in the developed world. It was closely associated with personal behaviour and risks and nobody was going to contract the disease going to the cinema, or in the office or going to the shops. It was, by its nature, unlikely to spread rapidly among the elderly, in care homes or in hospitals.

Of course, some people who relied on blood products had no control over those risks, which was a tragic and it took time for the NHS and public health authorities to get to grips with those issues.

COVID-19 is different. AIDS didn't close down schools, pubs, theatres, social clubs. It didn't have the same economic effect and people soon got to know what were risky activities.

A huge amount of effort was put into combating AIDS, and there are considerable number of drugs which can control it (although it's proven resistant to developing a vaccine due to the unusual way it operates).

I would say that COVID-19 is undoubtedly the greatest infectious disease public health issue in the UK since the 1918 'flu epidemic, and by a large distance. There is the potential for half a million deaths or more in the country. Whilst people can limit the risk, compared to AIDS (or even the 'flu), it's highly infectious and not everybody can isolate themselves from society and family.

Wed 20 Jan 2021, 11:52

I would just put a word in here for non-pandemic, endemic diseases here, which kill millions year-in, year-out. TB kills 1.4 million every year more than any other single infectious disease. Malaria kills about 400,000 kids under 5 every year. No effective vaccine for either (BCG not very effective in most settings). It amazes me how these are now viewed as public health crises, especially given the extraordinary economic impact of these diseases in LMIC.

Wed 20 Jan 2021, 07:31 (last edited on Wed 20 Jan 2021, 07:35)

I'm not quite sure what your source for 'having killed the least' is, Nick: the data at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics suggests AIDS is first, yes, but Covid tussles for 2nd place with the 1950s and 1960s flu outbreaks. But I agree we can't say this is the worst plague in history - the Black Death set quite a high bar. Though Phil is perhaps correct to say it's the biggest challenge for modern medicine - it's not just about the total, but the rapid growth (and the fact that we still don't seem to fully understand Covid), hence the need to check it, which is why we're all sitting here pontificating on the internet in the first place!

Tue 19 Jan 2021, 13:19

Following on from Phil’s observations ( greatest medical crisis the world has ever faced),  of the 5 pandemics since the Second World War, COVID-19 is distinguished by having killed the least ( though it may yet overtake one of the flu pandemics) and cost the most. We all seem to have forgotten about the deadliest pandemic since the war.

Answer: AIDS (32 million dead)

Mon 18 Jan 2021, 22:52

Good observation Philip. I spent many years living in Chippy before Charlbury and whenever I was over here on the odd weekend with local friends in the pub there would always be a sense of snobbery from the ‘incomers’. Born and bred folk were fine but the Ones we should all aspire to from the far and distant lands of Hackney and Shoreditch always had a slight recoil reaction as soon as I mentioned that I was over from Chippy. In the old days of course it would have been the opposite, I would have been belted out of the pub by the locals in case I was stealing one of their women and the ‘incomers’ would be stood flummoxed at the bar wondering what the hell was going on! Some mad woman said to me several years ago that Chippy should be in the Banbury constituency because it didn’t quite ‘fit’ with the west Oxfordshire set up. Outrageous

Mon 18 Jan 2021, 21:16 (last edited on Mon 18 Jan 2021, 21:29)

Without wishing to be unduly controversial, Charlbury has always tended to look towards Witney rather than Chipping Norton. Maybe a degree of snobbishness perhaps? As Witney has had its own problems with GP services in the recent past, Carterton is the next nearest partner of size. Not difficult to see how this has come about, but Chippy would have been the more logical grouping for older age groups given current public transport links.

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 19:51

The sun must have gone over the yardarm some time ago for someone here.

Liz is right about the bizarre decision to lump Charlbury CMC along with Burford.  It is a fact that this leads to transport issues for a large number of people, unless the (national) objective of the exercise is not to vaccinate people, but merely to offer a vaccine.  
It is even more absurd to claim COVID as ‘the greatest medical crisis the world has ever faced’, for the reasons Hannen sets out and more.

Meanwhile some people need to lay off the personal insults (for one thing).

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 19:17 (last edited on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 19:19)

 I think what Phil means is that we have not seen such a crisis in our lifetimes and thank goodness for that. We are far better placed to manage this than our ancestors ever were, but I do agree with Gareth that whoever put Charlbury CMC into the same area as Carterton and Burford, rather than with Witney or Chipping Norton, was probably suffering from a brain malfunction that day! It is completely illogical.

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 18:38

Clearly never studied History.

"In the midst of the greatest medical crisis the world has ever faced,"

Erm, the Black Death, Cholera, Diphtheria, Malaria, Polio, Smallpox, and others.  

Gareth simply asked a question or two.  Not unreasonable, in my opinion.  

I'm in a vulnerable category (70 with self inflicted COPD).  I'll queue, as I was taught to as a child, but I don't mind people asking.

I think the CMC is fantastic, and Gareth wasn't challenging that.  If those who ask questions are to be silenced for their effrontery what hope is there for our Society? 

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 17:50 (last edited on Sat 26 Jun 2021, 11:59)

Comment deleted by author.

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 15:18

Mike - I have.  It does not (and cannot) provide all the answers.

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 14:35

Read the  Medical Centre Web site.

Mon 11 Jan 2021, 08:10 (last edited on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 08:13)

What people in Charlbury over 80 probably want to know is why they still haven’t heard about this ‘world-beating’ vaccination programme, and for those without a car (or those for whom Carterton is a long way to drive), how on earth they are supposed to get to Carterton when the letter eventually comes.  There is a volunteer driver service, but it was not designed for transporting large quantities of people in the middle of a pandemic.

Sun 10 Jan 2021, 20:38

Is this for real? CMC wants 85+ years of age people to drive to Carterton for a life saving vaccination? That's 12 miles away or so with lots of difficult junctions... Could be more traffic accidents causing further strain on NHS than these people getting Covid. Surely there is transport arranged?