Charlbury, give us this day our additive free daily bread!

Fri 14 Aug, 07:27

Nobody is forcing anyone to look George. 

Thu 13 Aug, 10:00

Tax also affects us all, I wouldn't be looking on the forum for advice on it, mind! 

(Removes tongue from cheek) 

Wed 12 Aug, 12:47 (last edited on Wed 12 Aug, 14:04)

Although  this goes against the narrative and we all want to shut our ears to it,  it may well affect all consumers of folic acid.

Certainly, for anyone struggling to lose weight, cutting out bread per se does seem to be a big factor for success - carbohydrate 

The problem I have is I can’t give it up as I love bread as much as anyone here. A nice crusty loaf - who would say no! It’s the nasties they put in you have to watch out for! Ever wondered how long it takes for a lot of sliced bread to go mouldy? 

This is something that affects us all! 

Wed 5 Aug, 17:24

In terms of not being Charlbury related, it affects every person in Charlbury and beyond if you eat wheat based products in any form and as mentioned before, it's a synthetic medication with unknown long term effects alongside groups of society that shouldn't have it according to the NHS as shown in Liz's link.

Wed 5 Aug, 15:07

I am much reassured Neil - I was beginning to wonder how I'd managed to struggle thro' to 84 (and a half) without knowing about folic acid - but of course it is the PUB what's done it. Hurrah for the Rose & Crown!!!

Wed 5 Aug, 13:10

Interesting though this debate is, a) I share Miles’ - and others’ - valid concerns about the science here; b) it’s not even remotely Charlbury-related (unless inadvertently promoting Deep’s apparently legendary sourdough!); and c) it’s better off had in the pub.

Wed 5 Aug, 13:02

Why is this even a 'debate' - if you don't want additives in your bread then bake it yourself or buy organic?  We really are in a privileged position to discuss this while the majority of people need to buy the cheapest bread due to cost, no matter what the additives are.  The entire subject of additives within food is the biggest Pandora's box - you can make your own decisions for you body without posting it on the internet.

Wed 5 Aug, 09:56

The wider point here seems to be the ease with which people can be sucked into these conspiracy theories. Amanda appears to be a thoughtful, intelligent person and yet finds herself promoting groups and individuals who make their money from spreading such ideas. 

So how do we put the lid back on the box? The "all media is fake, and all experts are corrupt" argument is an amazingly powerful and insidious tool. It's always been around, but when now matched with the unregulated and ubiquitous internet, it can so easily corrupt.

Dialogue like this can help, but it's a drop in the ocean. But dialogue IS surely the answer (preferably not online). The problem, of course, is that dialogue itself is being eroded by phone use.

Bring on the Magnetic Pulse! (Yes, I'm aware of the actual consequences of that). 

Wed 5 Aug, 09:51

Liz thank you for your comment and attached link to the NHS guidelines on taking folic acid, notably termed a medicine. This alone should give cause for concern given the clear statement in relation to who should and shouldn't take it, potential issues in relation to mixing it with certain drugs and breast feeding mothers to check with a doctor or pharmacist before taking it. This information is not being given which concerns me greatly.

As nearly every wheat based product contains synthetic folic acid I would have thought the NHS information should be made clear to all purchasers.

I'm not of the belief that the government can mandate a medication of our daily food to the whole population, rather ensure that all 'mothers to be' understand the importance of natural folate in their diet prior to conception which certainly didn't happen for my four pregnancies.

It is understood not a great amount is required to mitigate the risk of neural tube defects which I believe could be handled well through education.

Wed 5 Aug, 09:14

What a pleasure to read such a civilised and well informed debate which lays out the evidence so clearly. We eat a healthy diet but take a folic acid supplement for its cardiovascular benefits. It's not for everyone but is particularly recommended in pregnancy. The NHS has a good summary of its uses including who should or should not be taking it.

Tue 4 Aug, 23:50

Thanks Matthew! We will know in 2 weeks when he can start to try a one legged bake - but will let him know his bread is appreciated. Anything to keep spirits up!

Tue 4 Aug, 21:31 (last edited on Tue 4 Aug, 21:31)

Hi Amanda, 

Dr Tim Kelly is also a conspiracy theorist (and a reform uk candidate). As well as being an antivaxxer, he doesn't believe in climate change: "because CO2 is a plant food - it's basic photosynthesis - I mean it's just crazy, guys."

These people are not experts and are not trustworthy sources of information. 

Martin

Tue 4 Aug, 19:38

Christine thank you, I should have pointed this out that his doctorate is from his PHD, all I was aiming for was the shortest video for people to hear Dr Clare Craig explain the issues and it was John Campbell's talk alongside Dr Tim Kelly.

Tue 4 Aug, 19:22

I'm afraid that using Dr John Campbell as a source leaves me feeling very sceptical. He is not a trained Dr. He's a retired nurse, with a PhD from the University of Bolton in nursing education. 

The Wikipedia page about him is very informative (but not very kind). He does, however, have a huge YouTube following. 

Tue 4 Aug, 19:20

There are few studies on the impact of folic acid and certainly not sufficient to cause people to have little choice but here are the supported reasons given for not mandating.

In 1875, Parliament made it a criminal offence to adulterate flour. The Sale of Food and
Drugs Act of…

Long post - click to read full text

Tue 4 Aug, 18:47

Please show some peer validated research, not links to videos or pseudo science websites. However, what is the benefit of sharing such material.

Tue 4 Aug, 17:56

This 17 minute talk between Dr Clare Craig, Dr John Campbell and Dr Tim Kelly explains the concerns from her research expressed in the letter to the Health Minister I posted initially.

I took two weeks to decide to post as it had to be clear to me that this is a problem in the making and I can't see it any other way I'm afraid but would be so happy if someone could provide the evidence that this is not the case.

https://youtu.be/iXLneMTiTDw?si=7o-G1vV8mjjiCcZN

Tue 4 Aug, 17:19

Oh no! Clare, I'm really sorry to hear about Deep's foot. How long will he be out of action? He bakes the best bread in Charlbury IMO.

Tue 4 Aug, 13:24

Amanda said "Folic acid (a synthetic additive unlike natural folate) is being added to your daily bread". 

But the new government regulations mean that, from December 2026, folic acid needs to be added only to loaves made with white and brown non-wholemeal flour. Wholemeal loaves on sale in Charlbury will be unaffected by the new ruling, except insofar as new guidelines have been introduced for defining what counts as wholemeal flour.. 

Small-scale millers are also exempt from the new rulings, and thus from needing to add folic acid to non-wholemeal bread and other baked products. There's been a bit of scaremongering here.

For the full legislation and reasons for it (primarily to prevent serious brain and spine problems, such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus, in newborn babies) see here.

Tue 4 Aug, 12:19

https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/folate

Folic acid is a more stable form of folate, because it’s not affected by light or heat. It’s also absorbed more effectively than the folate found naturally in food.

Until people start cooking entirely with fresh ingredients and ensuring they've got a 100% balanced diet, fortification of flour seems a positive step to me.

Boiling your greens means they lose half of their natural folate -- it's water soluble so it leaches into the water. The recommendation is for 250 MICROgrams of folate a day -- the BBC article has a nice list of how many mcg a serving of certain foods provides. It's not a lot, and it's certainly not in a takeaway, fish and chips, or ready meals. 

My most recent blood tests showed I was severely deficient in folate -- and I eat loads of soybeans, spinach, nuts, and pulses. Guess who's now on a supplement per GP instructions?

And you'll need to have over 450 mcg of folate per day over an extended time period before any adverse effects show up -- there will always be exceptions to the rule, of course, but a few fact checks are important here. 

The UKMFA wrote a rebuttal in the BMJ about safety and efficacy of Covid vaccines -- it's interesting that the majority of their references are to their own publications.

https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj-2022-070331/rr-11

Here's the response to the UKMFA: https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj-2022-070331/rr-18

Tue 4 Aug, 11:51

Want additive free bread?
Order from the Bread Shed (07733360623). You can collect or Deep delivers locally. 

The Bread Shed Sourdough breads are made with only organic flour, water, salt and wild yeast. No additives and 48 hour fermentation means it’s as healthy as it can be and gentle on your stomach

Sadly however, Deep broke his foot dancing at Wilderness and will likely not be baking for a few weeks. But we can let you know when he is back at it!!

Tue 4 Aug, 08:57 (last edited on Tue 4 Aug, 11:29)

Nicolette, the title is a witty play on words. Hence the exclamation mark at the end. I don’t believe it is in any way intended to cause religious offence.

Having said that, if someone was to misquote the Koran, for example it would probably be made into a big deal so I do understand your point. 

This is the information about the UK MEDICAL FREEDOM ALLIANCE freely available on Companies House https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13080501/officers obviously it is only part of the story, but can we trust the information on Wikipedia to be pure?

Tue 4 Aug, 08:52

Is this all bread and circuses?

Tue 4 Aug, 08:16

" the burnt child fears the fire" as the saying goes and I don't really want to join in this discussion and actually I don't think it should be on the Forum : the subject is either too important to be there or could be too unnecessarily frightening.  

I have a huge respect for Amanda; she is very intelligent  and conscientious in researching her subject . Also I am in general not very keen on additives, even herbs and spices, being put in food unless I am doing the cooking

However I admit I start up by being upset at THe Lord's Prayer being misquoted . Then ,as a former scientist, I want to know who the Medical FreedomAlliance are and a lot more about their work and reputation. 

Tue 4 Aug, 07:42

You're right Miles. Clare Craig is notorious for spreading health misinformation. Best ignored. 

Mon 3 Aug, 23:02 (last edited on Mon 3 Aug, 23:10)

The Medical Freedom Alliance and Dr Clare Graig are big Anti-Vaxxers, aren't they?

Are we sure this isn't just pseudo-scientific nonsense?

Mon 3 Aug, 22:00

Folic acid (a synthetic additive unlike natural folate) is being added to your daily bread alongside all non wholemeal wheat products and whilst the government mandate is from December this year, it's in most wheat based products I've looked at in stores, even organic sausages. Only a few small millers now provide flour with no additives.

The NHS guidance is that anyone with cancer, coronary stents, untreated B12 deficiency (pernicious anaemia) or with a past allergic reaction to folic acid should either avoid it or seek medical advice prior to consuming. What could be the outcomes of a daily high dosage from cereal at breakfast, sandwiches and a supper containing a wheat based constituent, no one knows but the increase in dosage would be vast.

This is such an important topic to be made aware of and for more information please see the letter which was sent to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care on the 26th June 2026 by the Medical Freedom Alliance.

https://www.ukmedfreedom.org/open-letters/joint-open-letter-to-the-health-secretary-mandatory-fortification-of-flour-with-folic-acid

Folic acid and cancer, the safety studies do not show what is claimed, please read below

https://hartuk.substack.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web

Dr Clare Craig, a diagnostic pathologist has done the research into the issues surrounding this important topic that affects us all. Please do take a few moments to read at least the open letter.