Destruction of badger sets in Centenary Wood

Fri 5 Jun, 22:35

This thread was locked by Richard Fairhurst.

Fri 5 Jun, 22:35

Hi folks,

I think this one has gone as far as is sensible. 

Fri 5 Jun, 17:49

Of course they made stupid noises and laughed at you for ‘confronting them’ and demanding they stop having fun, they’re teenage boys.

Fri 5 Jun, 12:53

Its odd how the very smart teenage den that has been built in Centenary wood and that contains a variety of household items and an

 Fire pit, has not been under the same scrutiny?  The badgers do have legs you know and do walk around the whole area, I've luckily witnessed that. This den potentially causes as much disruption,  and for sure pollution and impact on the wildlife and the area but no no one has mentioned that? Oh there was a sign up during  the drought about fires.  Just saying....  let's remind the children of how lucky they are, remind them of how they need to be mindful of their environment and the wildlife and let's let them be children , teenagers for as long as possible  please!

Fri 5 Jun, 12:47

*sigh* This conversation would be more productive if people read what I’m actually writing, rather than getting outraged at imagined slights.

Let me clarify:

I never said that ALL teenage boys were incapable of being thoughtful or caring. When I write “teenage boys” on this thread, I am referring only to the boys we came across. I hope this helps.

It would be an ill use of it but, if the boys were really desperate, they could use the skate park for bike ramps.

Riding on the road and riding up self-made ramps are both dangerous. This is not an either or situation. Frankly, if I was to hurt myself, I’d rather it be on road than in a remote woodland area. Easier access for an ambulance and I’m more likely to be found, you understand.

This particular group of boys were not simply riding their bikes through woodland - again, I’d have no issue with this. They were deliberately and knowingly digging up a public footpath with young wildlife nearby.

And please do not imply I am a snob, Katie. I am far from it.

I hope this clears everything up but Charlbury forum being what it is, I won’t hold my breath.

Fri 5 Jun, 11:15

So in which "designated spaces" in Charlbury are teenage boys allowed to ride their bikes? I thought this park was intended an open space for everyone? Or are only some members of the community welcome to use it? As for breaking their necks, they would be in much more danger riding their bikes on the road. 

Yes there are facilities for teenagers in Charlbury but parents of younger kids would be unhappy if large teenage boys took up the play areas all the time, activities at the Community Centre cost money, and not everyone likes skateboarding... Bike riding is free and we are fortunate to have lots of open spaces.

And as a parent of a teenage boy, I can tell you they care deeply about many issues such as the destruction of nature and climate change. It's grossly unfair to make such sweeping generalisations about a whole group in this way.

Fri 5 Jun, 09:35

This thread has been totally taken away from the initial conversation.

Myself and my family were the people who caught and confronted these teenage boys digging up the around the badgers sets. When confronted, they ran off, making stupid noises and laughing every time I tried to "engage" them in conversation. For clarification, I did tell them that there was wildlife in that area and I received more of the same. 

They were also building ramps with flimsy looking tree branches over fence lines. If one of those boys went up the ramp incorrectly, the ramp could have collapsed or they could have fallen off their bike and broken their neck. 

I think a lot of people on here are giving teenage boys too much credit in thinking that they would happily sit and talk through what they were doing, be enlightened by a conversation about wildlife and then find something else to do. 

If people have issue with how little there is to do for children/teenagers in Charlbury then maybe another thread should be made. Personally, I think the kids around here have a lot more to do now than when I was young - they have the community centre, two parks, a skate park and access to regular buses combined with cheap fares.

Not once did anyone say that we wanted children to go back inside and stop being a nuisance. There are designated spaces for a reason and these boys know that. 

Signed, a "busy body".

Fri 5 Jun, 07:48

Rosemary, the incident was not described "plainly". The title of this thread is "Destruction of badger sets in Centenary Wood", yet no badger sets have been destroyed. They were close to some badger sets where there were cubs, that's all.

Thu 4 Jun, 23:01

Excuse me Oliver, you introduced the phrase “castigate them as delinquent” into this debate. I did not. Your words, and your misjudged assumption.The incident was  described plainly. “They were asked to stop because of the badger cubs but kept returning.” Facts are facts.

Thu 4 Jun, 16:55

Wow! We spend all our time telling children to get off of their devices and to go out and make adventures, just like we did as children. Then the moment they do they are branded as vandals and animal abusers. I'm actually sickened by the comments on here. We are so very lucky to live in Charlbury and to have such a safe and lovely environment for the children to grow up in. The half term was scorching and a group of kids went into the woodland and made some ramps to ride their bikes under the protection of the trees. I am absolutely convinced those children were unaware of the harm that could have potentially had on the badgers in that area. I would hazard a guess that they were oblivious to the fact that their fun could have a negative impact on any wildlife. I am ashamed to think that Anyone would think otherwise!!!!

Thu 4 Jun, 16:29

If you think this is "sickening vandalism", you should see what farmers and fox hunters do to badgers and their setts (and I am not even talking about the DEFRA badger cull). Not to mention the thousands of badgers killed by traffic every year, including locally around Charlbury. Is this debate really about protecting badgers, because if so, there are plenty of better ways to help than persecuting kids for making ramps in the woods (it seems they can't do anything right these days)! 

Thu 4 Jun, 15:45

Rosemary, these kids had shovels and pick axes to build ramps, nothing more sinister than that. Trying to paint their behaviour pattern as wrong is wildly unfair, it’s resourceful, creative, adventurous and frankly great fun. It just so happens there may be badgers in that area that they’ll not have known about. So rather than castigate them as delinquent, let’s find an appropriate alternative for them to build a BMX dirt track?

Thu 4 Jun, 14:15

Can I add a few facts to the discussion? Centenary wood is not a nature reserve. It's there for the benefit  of the whole community, which includes children. The badger setts are on and around a well used path. They arent that easy to see, and as a result a few people twisted their ankles in them. It was suggested to the Town Council a while back that the path should be re-routed to avoid the setts, for the sake of all involved. OCC is the landowner so would have to agree. But from the view of a kid with a bike, it’s just a bumpy bit of path.

Children and young people as part of growing up need  to go out by themselves and make their own decisions - and that means they might make the odd mistake.  Maybe we should think about how the wood could work better for everyone, including badgers, rather than whipping up a pile on against kids in our community?

Thu 4 Jun, 10:45

Thank you both Rod and Jen for further commentary, and adding to the debate. This is what I was hoping for, as there are so many things wrong about the behaviour pattern of these children. Mucking about in the woods doesn’t bring to mind the intentional use of spades, and even worse, pick axes, which are not part of any game and are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. 

The community activities have done so much recently for the youth of Charlbury, with stunning achievements in many different areas of activity. All to be applauded.

Much more to be discussed as Jen indicated. 

Thu 4 Jun, 09:35

A couple of points I would like to highlight on this thread perhaps from a wider context:

• Currently our town is a mix of older residents, families of mixed ages and tourists

• We have and have had a severe lack of funding for any youth activities (dire basketball courts, football pitches which continually need re-seeding, a very small skate park, playground equipment which only gets replaced when the wood rots). We do have a great community centre but this is booked at cost

• While I am in no way advocating for the destruction of nature reserves or animal habitat I do think we need to have a perspective on this. Yes, these children did something wrong and there should be repercussions for that (although I do think punitive legal charges feels like a bit much) but we (as a community) need to address the fact that we do not have enough for this age group which could then lead to destructive behaviour

Again, I am not saying this should be swept under the carpet and I would NEVER agree with a ‘boys will be boys’ line of thinking. But, I could not tell you what a badger sett looks like myself and I think there is an education piece here – maybe could work with the youth community group on that? It sounds like individuals did tell the children what they were doing was wrong (as they should) and hopefully now this has been highlighted to the wider community (in addition to the TVP) the activities will not continue.

Thu 4 Jun, 09:10

I wasn’t going to post any more here – but it’s irritating when someone puts words in your mouth you haven’t used and accuses you of ‘making excuses’ when you haven’t. 

Let me spell it out. ‘Ignorance & stupidity’ can explain a person’s actions, or help to, but are not an excuse, in law or otherwise – just ask the ‘Sycamore Gap Two’.  If memory serves, interfering with badger setts is a crime under the Wildlife & Countryside Act.  So quite right this was reported to TVP, with what result remains to be seen, though in my experience, curing the ignorance is the first step in preventing future stupidity – and age and (im)maturity of course come into that.  As a practical step, perhaps some warning signs could be erected where, as appears to be the case here, the setts are in a spot popular with people (and no doubt their dogs).

Just to put this incident in perspective, close on 250,000 badgers have been culled since 2013 on the back of some unconvincing science (according at least to someone who understood it far better than I ever could!). So a ‘Moral Maze’ style question, where is the greater offence?  A handful of silly boys mucking about or the government (and therefore us) allowing a powerful lobby group to get away with that?  Which – to avoid any possible misunderstanding – doesn’t make what they did ok. 

All too easy to judge from afar.  I’d rather leave the fully informed to do that.  At least (as someone said to me yesterday) these boys weren’t stuck indoors, on screens, playing war games, watching pornography or being ‘influenced’ by misogynists.  So maybe there’s hope for them yet. Or should they just be given ‘a damn good thrashing’?  (See what I did there??  Irritating eh?)

Thu 4 Jun, 08:54

Thanks for your post and your honesty, Nicolette. This behaviour must be stopped, for many reasons.

Thu 4 Jun, 07:43

Rosemary. I could not agree with your comments more and disagree with Rod more or rather I agree that children can behave appallingly, I certainly did, and it was ignorance and stupidity but they like I should be stopped. 

Thu 4 Jun, 05:34

The images show this is clearly what is described initially, kids building bike ramps to play on. Something that kids have done for generations in woodland areas - there’s nothing malicious being done here. 

Why not engage them, advise what to look out for to avoid any disturbances with wildlife, while encouraging their need for adventure? Because ‘being told to stop’ by some random busy body isn’t going to deter kids from this, quite the opposite. Source: every teenage boy in history.

Wed 3 Jun, 17:21

Well done, Emily. It would be interesting to see whether any of those guilty of this crime will be prosecuted, given that the legal age of responsibility is ten years old. However, they would remain anonymous at that age so I have no idea how we would ever know the outcome. Any ideas anyone?

I am keen that this kind of behaviour be talked about, and it be stopped literally in its tracks.

Tue 2 Jun, 11:27

Mon 1 Jun, 22:33 (last edited on Tue 2 Jun, 11:08)

Rod. That vandalism is truly sickening, and why would you offer excuses for them? I don’t accept this ‘boys will be boys’ attitude at all.

Sun 31 May, 20:31

They were asked to stop because of the badger cubs but kept returning. Their brains might not be full developed but they know the difference between right and wrong.

Sun 31 May, 19:44

Having once been a teenage boy myself - if long, long ago and no doubt with a few misdemeanours of my own - I'd guess this was more ignorance & stupidity than malice.  You have to remember their brains aren't fully formed!

Sun 31 May, 19:25

Outrageous 

Sun 31 May, 11:27

I have seen four teenage boys digging up and creating bike ramps with spades and pick axes, right through the badger sets in centenary wood and through the nature reserve.

We have reported this to TVP and the volunteer wardens. We also have footage of a couple of the boys that will be passed to the TVP.

There are badger cubs in that section plus other wildlife. We have done our best to put it back as it was.