Voter Exclusion Policies - how many Charlburians excluded? (Debate)

Tue 13 Jun 2023, 12:56

Maybe national politics could impinge on the local, and Mr Courts might resign in a fit of pique about not being rewarded for his loyalty with a peerage?  We can but hope….

Sat 10 Jun 2023, 16:20

Russell, suggest a double scotch and an early night (cf 'No signal' on Main Board)! 

To try to answer your question, however inadequately, national stuff inevitably impinges on - and recently has curtailed - the local.  For my part, the first priority is a change of government - not going to solve everything overnight but surely a pre-requisite to anything else.

Fri 9 Jun 2023, 22:22

I read all of this and get so depressed. National politics are one thing but why oh why should national dreams affect local, I repeat local, issues? 

Wed 7 Jun 2023, 14:45 (last edited on Wed 7 Jun 2023, 14:45)

I admit to being a bit sceptical about that projection. The idea that Labour are going to take Oxford West & Abingdon off the LibDems is nonsensical.

But yes, Banbury should be an obvious one for Labour, at least before the Cherwell farrago happened.

Wed 7 Jun 2023, 12:56

Interesting polling released today based on new boundaries:

https://www.bestforbritain.org/mrp_polling_new_boundaries_june_2023

For the Banbury constituency, if the general election was held today, they forecast:

Labour 31.6%, Lib Dems 11.7%, Conservative 26.7%

It's close enough that if the Reform Party dropped out in Banbury then Tories could win. If you want to vote tactically to keep the Tories out then it seems it has to be Labour.

Sat 27 May 2023, 15:18

Knowing David Evans personally from my experience of running elections in the 80s and early 90s I don't hold out much hope for pluralistic change. 

I had no time for Corbyn and many of his circle - again knew a lot of them and in many ways they were pretty reactionary group in a Leninist mould - but I am disappointed by the "reaction" that has set in around Starmer's lot. 

The LP is deluding itself that a working overall majority in one election has the time for policies to embed in socio-economic change in one term and reliably maintain that majority... can't see how an "elective dictatorship" can gestate in the time given within the levels of "false- conscience " in our social system at present in the time available for change to sink in ...

And I don't thing FPTP has much of any ethical limbs to stand upon even though I'd wager that a good majority of the LP membership would back it as well as stronger environmental policies etc.

Fri 26 May 2023, 21:43 (last edited on Sat 27 May 2023, 08:08)

I'm a fan of the work of https://www.compassonline.org.uk They bring together different progressive parties and who I believe helped facilitate some of the electoral pacts across the UK. 

Back in 2015 Labour and other voters in West Oxford successfully "lent" their vote to Lib Dem Layla Moran whilst in East Oxford other voters lent their votes to Labour's Anneliese Dodds.  

Compass believe people and organisations share many similar ambitions and values being able to work constructively together. It's a much more common model in other European countries, where politicians  and political parties are used to working together for the wider public good.

Wed 24 May 2023, 16:12

I'm afraid we will be in the Banbury constituency, unless they call an election before the end of this year, which I doubt they will.

Wed 24 May 2023, 07:30

This is appalling news. As a progressive tactical voter, I was considering voting Labour if we were unfortunately placed in the Banbury seat, especially if PR was in the Labour Party manifesto and a closer relationship with the EU was in evidence. I would find that decision much harder, if you vote Labour and get Tory. Hopefully we might still stay in the Witney seat for any 2024 election where the only poll suggests the Liberals are now only 4% behind the Conservatives.

Tue 23 May 2023, 19:23

Tories now forming a minority adminstration in Cherwell.  What a lost opportunity. 

Tue 23 May 2023, 09:15

A couple more reports about the Cherwell situation:

https://westenglandbylines.co.uk/politics/democracy/the-strange-saga-of-cherwell-who-will-run-its-council-now/

https://oxfordclarion.uk/what-happened-in-cherwell/

Mon 22 May 2023, 13:03 (last edited on Mon 22 May 2023, 13:04)

The report is accurate.  Labour's NEC is deliberately choosing to undermine local democracy by refusing to allow alliances such as the one that we have successfully maintained in Oxfordshire for the past two years, and in West Oxfordshire since last May. The various parties in Cherwell reached an agreement to form an administration and at the last minute, Labour pulled out.  Sean Woodcock, the Labour leader, told the other parties that the deal had been prevented by the NEC, but then went on the radio and tried to blame the other parties for the debacle.  Then at the meeting last week he made a bid for Labour, which only has 14 members on Cherwell, to form a minority administration. That was voted down.  Let's see what is agreed tonight at the re-run of the AGM.  If the Tories manage somehow to swing a vote that allows them, with their 21 members, to form an administration, that will be  thanks to the backfiring of whatever bizarre strategy Labour's NEC think they are enforcing.

Mon 22 May 2023, 07:41

It seems that the version being put about locally about Cherwell’s problems may not have been an accurate one.  See the report at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/21/labour-accused-of-meddling-after-vetoing-local-authority-coalition-plans?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

All will be revealed when Cherwell councillors reconvene tomorrow.  Or possibly not.

Fri 19 May 2023, 22:26 (last edited on Fri 19 May 2023, 22:31)

Gareth, I have had no party briefings - only an unofficial and informal conversation with a member of the Witney Labour Party. 

And if anyone thinks that the Witney constituency is more likely to be won by a progressive party, I suggest they look again once the new southern boundary of the Witney constituency (somewhere near Wantage) is fixed. There were various appeals, including by the Tories, and we will know the outcome in June. 

And, no, I don't think there was Tory gerrymandering. Witney is the only one of the three constituencies in which the Tories look like having any new advantage. Labour is most likely to win in Banbury, and Bicester and Woodstock looks like a 3 way fight. 

Fri 19 May 2023, 20:35

So in order to win progressives and tactical voters over in any Banbury seat, what are the chances of the Labour Party including PR and a closer relationship with Europe in the manifesto do we know? 

I would much much prefer us to stay in the Witney seat, which is much more winnable for a progressive party. But my cynicism wonders whether the Conservatives are gerrymandering the boundaries to prevent a seat loss. 

Fri 19 May 2023, 19:32

The ‘sneering’ is in the incorrect remark - to say the least - subject to challenge is the idea that Banbury is a winnable seat for Labour, when they can’t even win a majority of councillors across the constituency.

Christine has confirmed - presumably through party briefings - that Labour’s NEC is spending its time meddling in the minutiae of local council administrations, when one might have thought it might be prioritising beating the most appalling government of any of our lifetimes at a General Election.  That does explain a lot.

Fri 19 May 2023, 18:50

OK, so I stand corrected about what the listed councils under Cherwell DC and OCC mean. And thanks for that, Richard, but I still think Ian Middleton (whom I've also never met) is spreading himself too thinly. 

He is listed as a Parish Councillor for Yarnton which is where he lives. Also on Gosford and Water Eaton Parish Council, plus Kidlington: Exeter Ward Parish Council, also OCC and Cherwell DC. I would have hoped the Greens could have fielded a broader range of candidates. 

In addition, I simply don't understand Gareth's rather sneering remark. What makes him think that Labour NEC is trying to control what their opponents do at a local council level, or what their opponents call themselves? I pointed out the different naming of the alliances simply as a way of indicating that the nature of the deals is likely also to be different -- and please don't confuse what I say with any official Labour policy ...

I can see that there might be a complaint that Labour NEC is seeking to control what their own councillors agree to at a district level, and intervene to prevent a coalition when they don't like the deals that have been reached between the other anti-Tory parties, but that's surely their right, especially with a General Election looming and Banbury evidently a winnable seat.

Fri 19 May 2023, 17:31

The parish lists on the OCC website say what parishes are contained in a county councillor’s division – not that the councillor in question is on those parish councils.

There have been several veiled comments that Cherwell Labour have taken against Ian Middleton for reasons undisclosed. (I’ve never met him and have no skin in this game!)

(Moving this to the Debate board because it’s mostly drifted away from Charlbury. Feel free to start a separate thread on the main board if you want to discuss the Charlbury angle to the Banbury constituency.)

Fri 19 May 2023, 17:02

The idea that one political party can somehow control what their opponents do at a local council level, or what they call themselves, is beyond parody.

Fri 19 May 2023, 16:32

I think Cherwell Labour are following instructions from Labour NEC. I was told it is all a matter of numbers ...

My information is based on informal communication from those most closely involved with the Witney constituency Labour party. (Charlbury remains a member of the Witney constituency until November 2023 when the transfer to the Banbury constituency is due to take place.) 

I suspect (but don't know for certain) that's it's also a question of the nature of the alliances between the Greens, (some of) the Independents and the Lib-Dems on the different councils. On OCC the alliance between the Lib-Dems and the Greens is described as the "Liberal Democrat Green Alliance", but on Cherwell it is the "Progressive Alliance". On WODC there is no official alliance listed under party groupings. If deals have been made between the "Progressives" on Cherwell District Council that Labour NEC can't sign up to, that is clearly an additional factor.

Quite separately -- and this is me speaking in an entirely personal capacity -- I have been absolutely astounded at how many councils an individual is permitted to sit on as a councillor. Ian Middleton (Green) is a case in point: he's on OCC, where he represents Kidlington South and is listed as also being on the following Parish Councils: Begbroke Parish; Gosford & Water Eaton Parish; Kidlington: Dogwood Parish Ward ; Kidlington: Exeter Parish Ward ; Yarnton Parish.

He's now also on Cherwell District Council (representing Kidlington East), and is also listed there as a Member of Kidlington Parish Council, a Member of Yarnton Parish Council, a Member of Gosford and Water Eaton Parish Council. His partner/spouse also sits on a broad (overlapping) range of councils as well.

I understand all this is within the existing rules, but really doubt whether any one individual should be allowed to take on so many roles! 

Fri 19 May 2023, 14:57 (last edited on Fri 19 May 2023, 14:58)

I’m intrigued, Christine – is that the official line being taken by Cherwell Labour?

It makes no sense. On OCC there is a joint LibDem/Green group (“Liberal Democrat Green Alliance”), which collectively has more seats than the Labour group. Exactly the same situation as on Cherwell. Yet on OCC there’s a LibDem+Green / Labour coalition, while on Cherwell, Labour is refusing it.

Fri 19 May 2023, 14:57

The only conclusion one can draw from the Cherwell machinations is that Labour prefer letting the Tories in, rather than working with the Lib Dems and Greens.

Leaving aside the 3 Independents, there are 25 non-Tories and 20 Tories.   This year Cherwell elected 5 Labour, 5 Lib Dem, 3 Tory, 2 Green and one Independent councillor.

Quite why a Labour committee in London thinks it knows best for people on Banbury, Deddington or Begbroke is a matter for debate.  What we do know is that they are unwilling to support the only option for running Cherwell that would get a budget through and be stable.  They are the third largest group on the council, so forming a sole administration is fanciful.

Fri 19 May 2023, 13:39 (last edited on Fri 19 May 2023, 13:43)

Michael Flanagan's report on the situation in Cherwell is not entirely correct. Despite what Michael says, Labour's NEC is continuing to support "the kind of partnership between the anti-Tory parties that governs Oxfordshire County and West Oxfordshire District". 

What the Labour NEC is unwilling to support (at least as I understand things) is the kind of anti-Tory partnership which exists between the Lib-Dems, the Greens and those Independent Councillors who do, in the Cherwell district, identify as members of the so-called "Progressive Oxfordshire" alliance. Since this "progressive" alliance is deemed to have already come up with some broad policy objectives and do (together)  outnumber the Labour grouping in Cherwell, Labour would be in a position of having to go along with their policies even where there was a conflict with the Labour General Election manifesto pledges.

To give an example: Labour and the Lib-Dems are likely to disagree about the need to build additional housing in the Banbury area, and this is an issue that will certainly be prominent in any upcoming General Election. 

It's worth noting also that the Green and Independent members of Cherwell's "Progressive Alliance" are nearly all in districts that will be in the Bicester and Woodstock Parliamentary constituency -- most obviously the numerous councillors from Kidlington and quite a few from Bicester. The exception are the councillors for the Adderbury, Bloxham and Bodicote district which is split between the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems. But it's fairly clear that in most other areas of the Banbury constituency the primary fight will be between Labour and the Conservatives.

Fri 19 May 2023, 11:02

The negotiations between the parties in Cherwell isn't a matter of rumour. Labour, at Cherwell's AGM on May 16, publicly announced it wouldn't support the kind of partnership between the anti-Tory parties that governs Oxfordshire County and West Oxfordshire District

Labour claims to be the biggest party on Cherwell District Council (though so does the LibDem/Green alliance), and has said in public it should, if necessary, be the minority ruling party. The Tories have simply kept shtum about all this.

Labour's national rules are that all local alliances need the approval of Labour's National Executive Committee (NEC) - and it's highly unlikely that the NEC would approve a formal coalition in Cherwell with the Tories. There's unlikely to be much opposition within Labour's national  hierarchy to Labour's attempt to take a minority controlling role, since Labour in Cherwell are claiming that the refusal to form an alliance with other progressive parties was the result of a specific instruction from the NEC.

There's virtually no "if" about Charlbury moving to the Banbury constituency if the next GE doesn't happen for another few months. There IS, though, a significant "if" about how Labour might explain to Banbury General Election voters why it's refused to cooperate with other parties in kicking the Tories out. I'd have thought, with the right candidate, the LibDems ought to be able to turn this to their advantage when campaigning for the next Banbury (inc Charlbury) MP.  

Fri 19 May 2023, 09:51

Is there any truth to the rumour that following the recent local elections, the Labour Party in Cherwell is thinking of doing a deal with the Tories,  rather than supporting a progressive partnership with the Liberals and Greens. Hope it’s just a rumour, as it makes things difficult for progressives if we unfortunately end up in the Banbury seat rather than Witney seat for the next General Election. 

Wed 17 May 2023, 14:31

Charlbury and Finstock will be in the Banbury Parliamentary constituency from October -- little doubt about that, unless a by-election is needed before the next General Election.  But we will remain with WODC for local elections. 

Wed 17 May 2023, 10:12

Interesting that the Minister for the Eighteenth Century (you know who I mean!) all but confessed the other day that the photo id - which he steered through Parliament - was an attempt at gerrymandering....

Hhhmm, will bear that in mind next time whichever constituency we end up in.

Sat 6 May 2023, 22:23

Glena, the officials were asking voters whether they had their ID so that they could go and get it if they had forgotten to bring it with them.  It saved time for those handing out the voting papers.  Sadly, they were also the officials who had to bar those who had no ID.

Sat 6 May 2023, 17:19

The short answer to Malcom's questions was "no" to both. The WODC officials running the poll were there to follow the law - and the Conservative government, instructing its MPs to vote for its programme, clearly had no interest in whether the "mandatory photo ID" law solved a problem that…

Long post - click to read full text

Fri 5 May 2023, 14:26

I was telling for an hour and there was a very friendly and jolly atmosphere as is usual in Charlbury. No one was turned away but the nice yoga lady had asked me to make sure her people knew to come in by the side entrance so some people were amused when I pointed them to the yoga as well as the vote. Most people said what they thought about the voter ID (not complimentary). In slack moments I spoke to the WODC official checking in the porch and found that even though someone was on duty there the whole time (7a.m. to 10p.m.) the same question had to be asked by the officials sitting at the table. Did they think the voters would drop their ID between the entrance and the table ??

Fri 5 May 2023, 08:35 (last edited on Fri 5 May 2023, 08:42)

We still offer people lifts, though most people have someone who will help them to get to the polling station in my experience - that is the community we are!  And a lot of people now do postal votes. That by the way is a way around the ID issue because postal votes require a matching signature, not photo ID (yet!).  Applications can be done online and anyone who does not have access to a computer can call Electoral Services at WODC and ask for a form.  

Thu 4 May 2023, 23:31

Also elderly people used to be offered lifts to the polling stations by different parties. It was a good way of getting everyone to vote.

This does not exist any more.

Thu 4 May 2023, 23:21

Many elderly people do not have access to a computer or know how to use one. This is  part of the problem.

Thu 4 May 2023, 21:06 (last edited on Fri 5 May 2023, 09:16)

I'm not passing comment on the legislation. But in case this helps someone in future, anyone can apply for photo ID to vote (called a ‘Voter Authority Certificate’) online or by post: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

Thu 4 May 2023, 18:32

An elderly lady was turned away when I was there this afternoon.  She does not possess any photo ID and I’m sure she isn’t  alone.  It was so sad to witness as she had mobility issues and had struggled to the polling station in vain.  Had there been a Tory teller present, they would have been heard what I thought of their legislation.

The staff didn’t record who she was but were going to report back.  Others had forgotten their ID  and were sent home to get it but the majority conformed.

Robert Court will be hearing from me!

Thu 4 May 2023, 17:29

With the new Tory Voter Suppression Laws now in effect, is the Charlbury Polling Station counting and recording those turned away? Are they mandated to record who was turned away?