Poor Road Markings (Debate)

Sun 14 Jan, 19:08

There is a interesting radio programme on the BBC just released that discusses the traffic filter scheme in Oxford and how the scheme has become caught up in the ongoing culture wars (specifically conspiracy theories around "15 minute cities"). It has a brief interview with local councillor Duncan Enright where he discusses a meeting at Chipping Norton Town Hall that took a strange turn.

I recommend the whole series (Things Fell Apart with Jon Ronson) but if you want to just listen to the relevant episode then it is available as a podcast here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0h24kbq

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 01:03 (last edited on Thu 16 Feb 2023, 01:05)

A shame that they can’t sort out the critical things for the station users ; like a station master, a ticket machine that works and an electrical supply to power item’s to facilitate train travel . Marking and lines on the roads is still the concern 

Wed 15 Feb 2023, 23:30

Yes, the new signs are a town council project, funded by GWR. The main purpose is to show the walking and cycling routes to the station. 

Wed 15 Feb 2023, 22:56 (last edited on Wed 15 Feb 2023, 23:05)

I am as mystified as anyone as to why those signs have appeared.  Not OCC policy I can assure you.  Did the Town Council order them?

Tue 14 Feb 2023, 13:49 (last edited on Tue 14 Feb 2023, 13:57)

Well, as it happens, I am planning a cycle trip from Stranraer to Nice (1291 miles according to Google maps) so I think it will come in very useful if I happen to get lost at the Rose and Crown!

Tue 14 Feb 2023, 09:56

You pose an interesting philosophical question Philip, what is more important, as a walker and cyclist knowing which direction to go for Nice and Stranraer, or as a motorist and cyclist to be able to get out to the Fiveways junction, without damaging a car tyre or being brought off my bike by one of the numerous pot holes. Now let’s think. 🤔  

Mon 13 Feb 2023, 22:57

@david cook Hear, hear! OCC seem to have got their priorities wrong with excessive focus on Oxford while in dereliction of their statutory obligations re potholes. LTNs have concentrated congestion on major routes, traffic calming and chicanes are nice to haves, but ugly blue signs in the town centre to help you to cycle to Nice or Stranraer! Whatever next?

Thu 9 Feb 2023, 20:14

I love the new traffic calming on Enstone Road. I was driving out the other day, and a delivery van came roaring up to the new TC spot as I was approaching. He had to come to a full stop to wait for me and someone behind me. Otherwise he'd have bolted straight into the Enstone Road crossing going 50.

I repeat: I love it. :)

Thu 9 Feb 2023, 09:43

Another argument for traffic calming measures and more walking and cycling for short distances.  The heavier the vehicles, the more traffic on the roads, the greater the speed of heavy vehicles, the more they destroy the road surface, the greater the cost of road repairs.

I think you're just telling us that Gloucestershire is a quieter, more rural County.

Wed 8 Feb 2023, 21:29

The cost of a new tyre and possibly a replacement wheel , is more than 10 times the cost of an average repair to a pot hole - without all the administrative cost in dealing with the process . How many times does a single pot hole claim tyre and wheel victims - the potential financial cost is frightening. The longer left not being repaid- the greater the cost in financial terms , and the greater the risk of a cyclist being injured 

Wed 8 Feb 2023, 10:07

Presumably the County Council will start to receive claims for damage to cars resulting from hitting pot-holes to add to its financial woes. It doesn’t bear thinking what could happen to a cyclist hitting one of these pot-holes which are often full of water, if they fell under an unsuspecting passing car driver. 

Tue 7 Feb 2023, 16:30

Liz, I don't envy your position re funding. The traffic calming measures are really important and a lot of people are glad to see them coming into place.  We certainly do need a change in government - but at the national level not the local one.

Tue 7 Feb 2023, 14:26

So West Oxfordshire Council has no money to repair the poor state of roads in the county but can find money to put up 20 miles signage all over the county and installed LTN system in Oxford. It can find money to paint double yellow lines on roads which are covered in pot holes. The state of roads in the county are a disgrace and all we hear from our elected representatives is excuses but no action. Time for a change in May.

Tue 7 Feb 2023, 09:33

And the roundel to be repainted.

Tue 7 Feb 2023, 08:05

The posts are in place, just waiting for the signs to be installed

Mon 6 Feb 2023, 15:59

Lack of money is why there is no signage notifying drivers that there is a chicane on the Enstone Rd? I thought it was something that had to be put on when there were new road markings? How does it affect insurance if there's a crash?

Mon 6 Feb 2023, 08:53

Conversely Gloucestershire’s rural road signs are in a shocking state – often with one arm missing or hanging off, or with the signs facing the wrong way. When I was involved in signing a couple of cycle routes in 2021 the contractors were astonished at the state of them. Oxfordshire’s were much better!

Sun 5 Feb 2023, 22:37

It's on the schedule for repair but I am not sure when it will be done

Sun 5 Feb 2023, 21:48

We walked past Wellington cottages west on Grammar school hill today. The road surface is very poor as in many other places. We will just have to live with it it seems. Banana republic without the bananas. Or the climate. Drive very carefully. Or stay at home if you can. 

Sun 5 Feb 2023, 17:24 (last edited on Sun 5 Feb 2023, 17:26)

It's been true for many years that when you cross over into Gloucestershire, the state of the roads is noticeably better Our county's roads have been neglected for a decade or more, which is why the cost of getting them back to a reasonable state is so high. Government grants are not uniform, and vary from county to county.  

Sun 5 Feb 2023, 14:03

I don't have an answer to what can be done. But I have just returned from West Sussex, which seems entirely pothole free. The other week I was in Northern Northamptonshire, and that seemed entirely pothole free as well. 

Sun 5 Feb 2023, 12:34 (last edited on Sun 5 Feb 2023, 12:42)

I have travelled from Enstone to Spelsbury and yes, the roads are the responsibility of OCC and yes, they are particularly bad following the recent freeze and lots of rain. However the government has cut grants to councils for the past 10 years or so including grants for road maintenance.  The result is a gradual deterioration which we now estimate would cost around £200 million just to get the roads back to a reasonable state across the county.  We are not statutorily obliged to do anything more than the minimum on road maintenance,  though we are trying to find ways of improving how we manage the numerous potholes, and we are not allowed to raise council tax beyond 5% so we can't raise the money to do the repairs we would like to without borrowing - and 1% on council tax equals about £4 million so even raising council tax wouldn't come anywhere close to bridging the gap.  We can't take the money out of social care because that is a statutory requirement so we can't reduce other spending to repair roads.  If anyone has the answer, please let me know.

The maintenance contract for roads was extended by the previous administration to 2025, but we have just started the process of reviewing what we need so that we can put this out to a new tender before then.

Sat 4 Feb 2023, 09:46 (last edited on Sat 4 Feb 2023, 17:10)

It’s not just the road from Spelsbury to Enstone Philip. Most roads have deteriorated considerably in Charlbury and the surrounding villages over the last two years for some reason. It’s like wack a mole in reverse trying to avoid pot holes in Charlbury and the surrounding villages now as a motorist. As a cyclist it really dangerous especially when the pot holes are full of water. 

Fri 3 Feb 2023, 17:02

Allowing councils more access to ANPR data worries me. LTNs have increased congestion in Oxford - witness the revision of bus schedules. Most foreign schemes e.g. Ghent have used both stick and carrot. Park easily, cheaply and securely at a satellite car park then use mass transportation. Peartree P+R is now surrounded by housing. 

Oxford Airport's periphery would be a better site with a bus lane using one lane of what used to be a proper dual carriageway. OCC only owns one P+R site yet seeks to impose solutions while not having control of the key assets or the pricing. Allow Blenheim Estates to cover land to the west and north of Oxford in houses and solar panels and your parking / transportation options are reduced further still.

Re road markings and potholes these are the responsibility of OCC. Has anyone from OCC travelled from Spelsbury to Enstone lately?

Thu 2 Feb 2023, 17:37

If Oxford Parkway P&R were free it would immediately fill up with those parking to travel by Chiltern Railways.

At the moment the cost of the Apcoa parking for Chiltern Rail is much lower than at most other Chiltern Railway sites, because of the need to keep the two adjoining Apcoa areas (Water Eaton -- now renamed Parkway P&R -- and Chiltern Parkway) at the same price level. 

The whole parking area at Oxford Parkway is really confusing: it's not at all clear that there is a need to buy tickets from the correct set of Apcoa machines. It would be interesting to know how many visitors to Oxford get caught out by this.

Thu 2 Feb 2023, 14:52 (last edited on Thu 2 Feb 2023, 15:05)

Seriously?!!!

Regarding free park and rides, the problem with that is that OCC only own one, which is Parkway, the others are all owned by the City Council so making them free would be up to them.  However since they depend on them for a significant chunk of income that is unlikely to happen.

Thu 2 Feb 2023, 10:21

The new traffic calming island on Enstone Road sucks too.

Wed 1 Feb 2023, 16:57 (last edited on Wed 1 Feb 2023, 16:58)

I think the vocal minority as described is growing daily, people do have the right to challenge the decisions of their elected representatives if those representatives use a flawed consultation to pursue their agenda. This scheme will have a major impact

on folk who do not live in Oxford but need to visit daily for work, schools, hospital appointments etc. I suggest promoting park and ride by providing free parking would greatly assist with reducing traffic flows into Oxford. 

Tue 24 Jan 2023, 11:17

There are many reasons for the empty shops including the decision to build a huge new shopping centre away from the old one at a time when people chose to shop online.

But the real reason for this post is to try and whip up anger against a perceived waste of public money and to support a crowd funding exercise to take legal action against the County Council for having started to implement a perfectly normal city centre traffic restriction.  

The real waste of public money and time and our Council taxes will be in defending against this legal action.  Furthermore it seeks to undermine our institutions by raising anger against them amongst a vocal minority.  It becomes threatening when Canadian far right commentators start to join in the criticism of a local traffic scheme. We need to assure these folk that we are not stupid and that we will not be taken in by their destructive behaviour.

Mon 23 Jan 2023, 14:01

I don't know anything, but I'll take a shot in the dark and say the empty shops and premises in Oxford city centre have more to do with outrageous rents being asked, or people shutting shops to turn their properties into student housing, etc., than to do with pedestrianized areas. Just my ha'p'orth.

Thu 19 Jan 2023, 10:33

Why do the council need to embark on such expensive measures such a LTNs and cameras plus the admin support to dish out fines.  To minimise congestion in Oxford why not experiment with a free park and ride service and put pressure on GWR to provide free parking for people travelling into Oxford for the day. I would argue the pedestrianising of Cornmarket and Queen Street couple with the development of Westgate has been an economic disaster for the centre of Oxford with empty shops and premises to be seen ever where. 

Wed 18 Jan 2023, 18:00 (last edited on Wed 18 Jan 2023, 18:01)

 Cornmarket and Queen Street have been pedestrianised for many years and if we were to say that we were thinking of allowing cars into those streets again I bet there would be an outcry!  We have recently pedestrianised Broad Street and people really like it.

Wed 18 Jan 2023, 10:24 (last edited on Wed 18 Jan 2023, 10:27)

Last year we visited Ghent, which I understand was the blueprint for the Oxford LTN. That city developed a circulation plan: https://stad.gent/en/mobility-ghent/circulation-plan

We walked past a canal basin, with people in restaurants enjoying the cobbled streets. We later learned that until a couple of years ago the canal was covered over with a car park. The car parks are now on the edge of the town and most people travel in on the busses and trams. The absence of traffic means more people feel comfortable taking bikes, and the streets themselves become more pleasant places with less pollution or noise. 

Our friend, who lives there, explained there was enormous debate about the car gates, a vocal minority objected strongly, but once installed the majority wondered why it had not been done many years before.

If you want to have a look at what it looks like there’s a short video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEOA_Tcq2XA

Wed 18 Jan 2023, 09:47

https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/traffic-filters-2022

All traffic filters will operate on ANPR (as does the existing bus filter on the High Street in Oxford)

Tue 17 Jan 2023, 18:49

Liz, can you advise where I can find the outcome of the consultation ref ANPR?

Tue 17 Jan 2023, 17:57

If you are referring to the traffic filters, yes, there has been a consultation.

Tue 17 Jan 2023, 13:39

Liz

I did not call it a referendum, what was the point of a consultation if it was the councils intention to press ahead regardless. Of bigger concern can you confirm if there was a  consultation with regard introducing ANPR cameras? Were people consulted for their approval for their car journeys to be monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week. BIG BROTHER by stealth.

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 20:33

See below "Also ref the painting of lines etc, to say that when we publish the new budget, you will see that we are increasing what we spend on road markings etc"

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 23:11

Going off topic here . The road markings are still poor, not getting any better 

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 15:06 (last edited on Fri 13 Jan 2023, 15:11)

A consultation is not a referendum. 

I can recommend the enjoyment of taking the bus from Peartree Park and Ride and speeding past the jam of static cars all along Woodstock Road. The plan is to make that possible for everyone.

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 13:29

Liz, the public consultation was not in favour of the proposed LTN scheme but the council has decided to proceed regardless, I do not see what was the point of spending public money on the consultation in the first case. The LTN scheme dos not take into account for people who live in places like Charlbury who need to commute daily or several times per week to parts of Oxford not served well by public transport. In addition by your own admission recruitment of bus drivers is challenging so herding people into park and ride daily who will then suffer delays for the onward journey to Oxford due to reduced bus service caused by lack of drivers is a nonsense. Having arrived in Oxford some commuters will require to catch another public service to their final destination thus considerably increasing their daily commute in both directions. However I am pleased the council has found extra funding for road marking in west Oxfordshire, this is very welcome.

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 18:29 (last edited on Thu 12 Jan 2023, 18:40)

We will shortly be introducing ANPR to the LTNs, which will make it possible for people to travel through them - but they will get fined if they do unless they are taxis, emergency vehicles, blue badge holders etc. This should have the effect of significantly helping the flow of traffic around them.  We had to wait to get government approval for ANPR which is why it hasn't been done sooner. The traffic filters will also allow for similar exemptions - there is actually a very long list, and everyone will have passes that will allow them to use the roads with filters up to 100 times a year depending on whether they live in the city or outside.  Plus we are making the park and rides cheaper to encourage people to leave their cars there and take a bus into the city centre.   

David, you are absolutely wrong when you say that no attention was paid to the consultation. We have made some significant modifications as a result and in any case, what is being proposed is an Experimental Traffic Order, which means that we can monitor them and modify them before making them permanent.

Ref buses, a lot of the pressure on bus services is down to a lack of drivers but recruitment is difficult because we don't have an unemployment problem in Oxfordshire - it is a very tight job market ( I won't mention the B word)

Also ref the painting of lines etc, to say that when we publish the new budget, you will see that we are increasing what we spend on road markings etc.  Full cover in today's Oxford Mail https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23246848.updated-proposals-oxfordshire-county-council-budget-2022-2023

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 13:14

My sympathies Birgit. I have spent too much of my own life sitting on a bus in solid traffic queues on the Abingdon Road travelling to Abingdon.  I used to cycle in the summer down the cycle route but it was too dark in the winter and the roads in the winter rain and dark were not a good thing.  

Wouldn't the answer to your problems be bus lanes that worked and maybe recruitment of more bus drivers so that staff rotas worked?  

Wed 11 Jan 2023, 23:49

LTNs having adopted a technologyless solution have created their own headache as they make no differentiation between through traffic and residents. Local buses & emergency vehicles are similarly impacted. LTNs should use an ANPR set-up to allow proper 'filtering' of road user.

Wed 11 Jan 2023, 15:06

Hmm, I am usually very much in agreement with what you write, Alice and Liz, but on this occasion a little less so. In my view, Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) are not the resounding success people hoped they would be and it is not just the car-loving minority who are angry. Three/four times per week, I travel by train from Charlbury to Oxford and then from Oxford train station to the Oxford Brookes campus in Headington by bus.  On the way home, I obviously do the journey in reverse, only there is zero point taking the bus from the campus to the station: as surrounding, rather wealthy residential areas have been closed off, all traffic is squeezed through a few main arteries, creating total gridlock. It takes a good hour to travel the journey, that pre the introduction of LTNs, would only take 20 minutes. I therefore walk, which takes about 40 minutes but at least I can guarantee I will catch my train. Walking is good for me, and I happily do this (despite car fumes), but not everyone can. Twice this week, on the way *to* the campus, bus driver shifts could not take place (at Queens Lane) because a staff shuttle bus had got stuck somewhere. This meant long delays for us passengers waiting for the bus driver taking over the shift to turn up. Public transport staff feel deeply unhappy about the LTNs and the new system adds considerable stress to their working lives. What to do? I have no solution and also want cleaner air/reduction of car use- perhaps in the longer term car traffic is organically reduced and bus lanes added. But at the moment, the LTNs seem too much of an action taken in isolation with some benefits for particular areas and residents, but also considerable negatives for everyone else, including green-leaning public transport users. 

Wed 11 Jan 2023, 08:14 (last edited on Wed 11 Jan 2023, 14:51)

David was trying to reassure me that in 20 years time people will stop dying in large numbers because the gridlocked traffic outside their homes and in which they are sitting, will be electric.  That it was therefore an outrageous waste of public money to reduce traffic in residential areas.  

In my opinion it is an outrageous waste of public money to use the courts to try and prevent actions that will prevent the ill health and death of people in or around traffic.  That this is a public health issue on which Council’s have a duty to act and have failed for many years.  I wondered who was funding this international libertarian divisive issue.  Individual freedom only exists to the point that it infringes on other people’s liberty and congestion adversely impacts on the health, welfare and freedoms of the majority.  Reducing traffic on residential roads is no more an authoritarian act than building the sewers to stop people dying from gastric bugs.  It is a cost of society.  

Wed 11 Jan 2023, 07:47 (last edited on Wed 11 Jan 2023, 07:47)

It’s inevitable that other gridlocked cities adopt a London style congestion charge for driving in central areas, if the current situation is untenable. Force people onto public transport (and provide enough PT so it is cheap, frequent, fast and convenient), penalise vehicles that have poor emissions and reward those with zero. Therefore EVs save you from the congestion problems, by granting you free access into areas others have to pay to enter.

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 19:36 (last edited on Tue 10 Jan 2023, 19:37)

How are electric cars going to solve Oxford’s congestion problem?

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 16:09

If as stated by the government there will be no sale of petrol or electric cars after 2030 plus the increased number of sales of EV between now and 2030 why do you think it right for councils to spend money on such schemes which will be redundant in the years to come.The policy is authoritarian, it totally ignores the findings of the public consultation which opposed the scheme. Not angry just object to the council spending money on consultation and then ignores the result. 

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 11:25

Goodness, is this the oil lobby funding action against cleaner air in towns?  I wish they would stop wasting my Council tax taking legal action against the Council.  This measure should improve health long-term and that is what Council's should be doing more of, I certainly wouldn't describe it as 'authoritarian'.  

I moved out of Oxford 9 years ago because of the gridlock, pollution, misery and poor respiratory health.  It was a very good decision and I wish the residents of Oxford well against the minority of the angry.

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 09:00

Wow, even Jordan Peterson has weighed in on the Oxford traffic filter scheme...

Why do traffic reduction schemes attract so many conspiracy theories?

Tue 20 Dec 2022, 14:26

Mathew, GB news article and threats to council staff is totally unacceptable. My point is Oxfordshire Council cannot maintain roads including re-painting white lines due to budget constraints  but can budget for road schemes which have been totally rejected following public consultation. The new scheme is nothing but an authoritarian cash grab by Oxford Council dressed up as traffic calming  

Tue 13 Dec 2022, 23:12

The lovely GB News has picked up on this story:

"Here’s a good example of how @GBNEWS promotes misinformation and amplifies conspiracy theorists - with unpleasant real-world consequences. Not anti-vax stuff this time. It’s about a traffic-calming scheme in Oxfordshire."

Twitter thread here...

Tue 13 Dec 2022, 18:18 (last edited on Tue 13 Dec 2022, 18:21)

Hollow Way and Marston Ferry Road will operate at peak times only during the week.  This was agreed at the Cabinet meeting that I chaired a week ago.

We have a number of park and rides around the city, with a new one coming near Eynsham.  So it should be possible for people who currently drive into Oxford to go to work to park there and take a bus into the city centre. This approach is being supported by the major employers in the city, including the universities.

Tue 13 Dec 2022, 13:29

Liz

information ref operating hours is available on Oxford County Council site, information clearly states the filters will operate 7 days per week from 7am to 7pm with the exception being Marston Ferry road and Holloway where filters will not operate Sundays only.https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters Details of the overall number of objections following the consultation is also to be found on https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/traffic-filters-2022. The offer of 25 permits per year is not adequate for people who live outside Oxford and travel into Oxford for work.

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:34 (last edited on Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:59)

Traffic filters are a completely different matter from LTNs.   I don't know where you get your information from, David Cook, but you have been somewhat misinformed.  The filters will not all operate 7 to 7 all week.  Some will operate in peak times only.  Everyone in Oxfordshire will be entitled to 25 free passes a year per car with people living in and close to Oxford getting 100 per car, and there will be concessions for people with disabled badges, carers, etc.    Cycles, vans, taxis and emergency vehicles will be able to travel through the filters. The filters  will be introduced under an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order (ETRO) which means that they are not permanent and can be modified if necessary.  They are not being introduced till 2024.  And the penalty charges have not been discussed, let alone agreed at £70. I can give you a good deal more information if you want to get in touch with me.

The purpose of the filters is to improve the flow of traffic in the city. They will speed up buses and reduce traffic jams, allowing people who need to use their cars to move more freely, and will make it safer and more pleasant to walk and cycle.  Of course all of this will be carefully monitored throughout the period of the ETRO.

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:19 (last edited on Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:36)

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods.  Introduced in Cowley and East Oxford.  The Cowley ones were introduced two years ago by the then Conservative administration, using government funding aimed at increasing active travel.  So a completely separate funding pot from road maintenance, which had to be used for that purpose.  They have proved to be very controversial and there is a lot of misinformation out there about them, such at that they were "rejected by a landslide" and that they are "causing gridlock, pollution and misery".  There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:15

hi Kris, Oxfordshire County Council is proposing six new 'traffic filters' essentially road closures on six of Oxford's main roads.Traffic filters will severely limit freedom of movement across the city from 7am to 7pm 7 days per week or risk a £70 fine. Visitors from out of town  who arrive by car will be unable to travel through any traffic filters during peak hours even at weekends. With respect to Richard this is a Charlbury issue for those residents who need to travel to Oxford by car.www.gofundme.com/f/stop-oxfords-traffic-filters is mounting a legal challenge.

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 17:03

What is “LTNS”, please? Kris

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 14:56

[Moved as this is an Oxford issue not a Charlbury one –Richard]

Mon 12 Dec 2022, 12:53

Despite the funding cuts Oxfordshire Council can still find money for LTNS

which were democratically rejected by a landslide at consultation and despite the councils own report evidence they are causing gridlock, pollution and misery.