Sewage overflows (Debate)

Thu 28 Mar, 17:07 (last edited on Thu 28 Mar, 17:10)

It's not just a lack of investment but like Grenfell, a lack of regulation, stemming from the 'we prefer to work with the industry rather than regulate them' attitude.  No prizes for guessing where that comes from - nor what it means in practice.

I don't have an idealogically-based opinion on privatisation v nationalisation but if you are going to privatise a monopoly utility supplier that gets its raw material free from the sky you need to put in place systems to regulate both the way it conducts its business (excellent summary of how it's got to such a sorry state and is now laden with debt here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66051555) and not just in setting requirements for its environmental impacts but maintaining an effective system of monitoring and enforcement of them.

Having failed utterly on the first part (under successive governments since 1989) what you don't do is emasculate the enforcement body (the Environment Agency), insist on holding prices down artificially for political reasons (Ofwat) and then (in 2011) turn the poacher into the gamekeeper by putting the water companies in charge of their own monitoring and reporting (just like Grenfell - self-certification). 

There's an election coming.  I won't go as far as Charlie (being of the Dawkins / Lennon persuasion - 'imagine etc'!) but for a multitude of reasons, they simply have to go.  But ask more of the candidates - just having a pop at CEO bonuses, however justified, will achieve absolutely nothing.  There needs to be a serious programme put in place - and it will take many years to put right.

Oh and sewage of course is not the only problem - but you have to start somewhere.  As for salmon - don't get me started!

Thu 28 Mar, 14:14 (last edited on Thu 28 Mar, 14:15)

***** A LITTLE STORY ABOUT WATER OVER THE YEARS *****

In 1967 I capsized while rowing on the River Thames. I swallowed some of the river water, and was in hospital for a week. 

Through the 1970's and 1980's, the publicly-owned water companies cleaned the river up; I seem to remember that even salmon inhabited it.

And then came the privatisation of the water companies.

And now the Oxford and Cambridge boat race crews are being warned not to enter the water because of the danger of E. Coli.

THANK YOU, Margaret Thatcher and the Tories, for yet again destroying our inheritance. MAY YOU ROT IN HELL.

Wed 27 Mar, 22:14

Can we finally put an end to the myth that the privatisation of essential services was anything other than robbery? Please.

Wed 27 Mar, 19:16 (last edited on Wed 27 Mar, 22:35)

Thanks for the link Matthew, it's shocking that this can be allowed, come on politicians pull your finger out and ignore your dividends.

I don't think we should ever refer to the intentional contamination of our rivers as "spills" as it almost suggests an unintentional overflow, whereas it is absolutely premeditated due to a lack of investment and shareholder bonus payments.

Wed 27 Mar, 18:20 (last edited on Wed 27 Mar, 18:24)

England’s sewage crisis: how polluted is your local river and which regions are worst hit?

If you put a local postcode into the above article from today's Guardian it says the Evenlode had 894 sewage spills in 2023 compared to 409 in 2022. Apparently this is about average compared to all rivers in the UK (if I have understood the data correctly)! Not great...

P.S. Just noticed that if you hover over Charlbury there were 11 spills here in 2023 and a whopping 126 spills up the road in Milton.

Wed 30 Nov 2022, 23:02 (last edited on Thu 1 Dec 2022, 09:43)

According to the CEO of Thames Water - or so I read - the current overflow problems are the result of "excessive rainfall".

Oh silly me, there I was thinking it was because their sewage works weren't capable of dealing with the entirely predictable demands now being placed on them - when all along it was the fault of Mother Nature for suddenly raining too much!  Oh and btw, for replenishing the aquifers and reservoirs TW rely on for their supply entirely free of charge!!

So she should be punished shouldn't she??  Let's pour loads more sewage into the rivers and teach those fish, birds, invertabrates and weeds a lesson they won't forget - and all in time for Christmas!

Yes, this is a rant. No apologies for that.  It needs more than that though if they are to be pressed into real action.

Sun 18 Sep 2022, 21:05

So, can you use a pressure washer ? Do we still have a hosepipe ban ?

Fri 9 Sep 2022, 11:09 (last edited on Fri 9 Sep 2022, 11:10)

Bit of confusion here.

Private leisure boats are explicitly included in the rules:

“The following uses are prohibited: […]
4. Cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe”

But there are a few small exceptions:

“The following uses are excepted from the prohibitions. […]
“1. Health and Safety: Using a hosepipe to […] (b) to clean a private leisure boat, […] for health or safety reasons, where health or safety reasons includes removing or minimising any risk to human or animal health or safety and preventing or controlling the spread of causative agents of disease. […] 13. Using a hosepipe to clean: (a) a private motor vehicle, (b) a private leisure boat, […] where this is done as a service to customers in the course of a business; […] 15. Cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe if the vessel is a primary residence, in cases where fouling is causing increased fuel consumption or where engines are designed to be cleaned with a hosepipe”

Which all seems fairly sensible to me.

A hire boat or a Thames passenger boat is not a “private leisure boat”. There are fairly strict definitions of what counts as a private leisure boat – for starters, the Boat Safety Scheme requirements are much more stringent for hire and other commercial boats. So Oxfordshire Narrowboats at Heyford can still clean their boats after each week’s hire as they did before.

But then boats are certainly not just owned by “rich shareholders”, as any stroll up the towpath in Oxford (or Worcester, or wherever) will demonstrate. My entire share portfolio is £500 in the Deli, and it would be lovely to be rich but…

Wed 7 Sep 2022, 14:15

Thanks Harriet for your explanation - I did not know that. Not so many thanks for the tone of your reply - let’s keep it polite.

Tue 6 Sep 2022, 12:29 (last edited on Tue 6 Sep 2022, 12:31)

No, it's for working river cruises. Maybe the narrowboats at Heyford, or the boats on the Thames in London. You need to think about what industries operate on waterways in the UK, your knee-jerk reaction is very similar to the one that saw people victimised for working alone outdoors during lockdown. 

Mon 5 Sep 2022, 20:05

I'm baffled by this exception to the rules - "Using a hosepipe to clean any area of a private leisure boat which, except for doors or windows, is enclosed by a roof and walls" - sounds like a rich shareholder exception to me.

Tue 30 Aug 2022, 11:02

I just checked again.  You can use them on allotments but you can't use them on your own garden vegetable patch.  I don't know why there is a distinction.

You can also use your hose to fill your watering can - so the fact that some hoses have drips of water on them isn't necessarily a sign of lawlessness.

This doesn't explain why the Conservatives have relaxed the previous EU based stricter law in their new legislation and that exceptional storm sewerage releases into internal waterways and onto beaches is now allowed during periods of drought - not a storm to be seen.  The polluters - the water companies - should pay to clear it up, not us.  I don't want to see it nationalised again - I don't want to pay for the profits that have been extracted by the companies and given to shareholders.  I want them to be fined massive amounts for each breach again like they were under EU law.  I want to properly fund the enforcement body which was cut so egregiously (good word) by Ms Truss.

Mon 29 Aug 2022, 23:04

I thought the Thames Water restrictions allowed hoses on allotments for watering vegetables....

Mon 29 Aug 2022, 12:20

Hoses can be used under certain circumstances, their use isn't totally banned, e.g. For 28 days to water new plantings after planting, new trees, to water plants in pots, to water temporary plantings etc. You can't use them in allotments, established borders or lawns. 

Until you know the circumstances I'd have thought it best for councillors not to make comments like that, and maybe for them to familiarise themselves with the conditions of the ban

Sun 28 Aug 2022, 18:42

Having just walked by the property owned by someone who could be said to be a media influencer with strong links to the government, with a dripping hose in full public view, one wonders how a) egregious breaches of the law might be handled and b) if anyone really cares that these laws appear to exist for some but not others.

Mon 22 Aug 2022, 13:27

One of the national newspapers carried a cartoon recently of one water company employee talking to another overlooking a dry river bed - "This is a crisis, we've got no river to dump the sewage into!"  Would be funny were it not so serious on both counts.

Sun 21 Aug 2022, 15:26

You'll see that our MP has voted for this to continue

Tue 9 Aug 2022, 18:59

Went for a walk up the Mill field to the weir. Not a pleasant sight on the east side with what looked quite brown...

Tue 9 Aug 2022, 11:56

Ironically, if we did have a flooding issue, as least we would have had rain !  better do the rain dance :) 

Mon 8 Aug 2022, 08:43

WODC will be hosting a Water Day for the public in the autumn with representatives from OCC, WODC, Thames Water and the Environment Agency. This will be about local sewage issues and other forms of pollution, plus flooding.  Details to follow shortly. 

Fri 5 Aug 2022, 14:42

Witney Sewage Treatment Works Open Day - 9th September.

Thames Water will be hosting an open day, with tours running throughout the day and Robert Courts joining the tour groups in the morning. 

Further information, and details of how to sign up for a tour, can be found here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/witney-sewage-works-open-day-friday-9th-september-2022-tickets-387008531937.

Thu 7 Apr 2022, 09:28 (last edited on Thu 7 Apr 2022, 09:29)

The latest figures show the water companies pumped sewage into our rivers more than 370,0000 times - no misprint - in 2021.   The present conditions result directly from the government's handling of the industry and its regulation over decades but especially since they allowed the companies effectively to police themselves about 10 years ago.  According to the Daily Telegraph, the government's target is a 40% reduction by 2040 - 18 years away - and 80% by 2050.

Here is a response from WASP (Windrush Against Sewage Pollution): 

31st March but it may as well have been April Fools Day for that is how the public is being treated. Possibly the most pathetic response to the sewage crisis that we have seen so far and guess what? Pollution will remain profitable and illegal pollution will continue. Writing to your MP would help even though that may seem unlikely - WASP Blog coming with some help on that.

Anyone interested should catch their talk here on 25 April.

Fri 1 Apr 2022, 20:23

Some months ago I complained to our MP about the excess of sewage in our rivers, and yesterday I received a long email from Robert Courts. He has sent me various emails on this topic in the last few months.

Since there is an online consultation involved (open until May 12th), I am posting a portion of the email here:

"Today, the Government has published plans to set clear and enforceable targets that the water industry must meet to significantly reduce storm overflows and ensure they are used only in exceptional circumstances.

Under the plans, water companies will face strict limits on when they can use storm overflows and must completely eliminate the ecological harm any storm sewage discharges cause to the environment.

This ties in with the recently enforced Strategic Policy Statement to Ofwat, the water regulator, which sets out government’s expectation that storm overflows should operate infrequently, and only in cases of unusually heavy rainfall. The Policy Statement empowers Ofwat to challenge water companies to meet this expectation – and indeed Ofwat is legally required to act in accordance with the Policy Statement.

A consultation has been launched on the plans set out today, which you can respond to here: https://tinyurl.com/268jebek. "