Proposed Police, Crime Sentencing and Courths Bill (Debate)

Tue 18 Jan 2022, 22:52

Charlie M, I didn’t see your comment earlier. 

I do agree with you. When, and how did we learn to step away from those most in need? I do find this apathy business very difficult to understand, as we begin to disconnect from the values and empathy that we learn at an early age from parents, and our early years of education in how to become social beings through play and guidance.

Tue 11 Jan 2022, 19:53 (last edited on Tue 11 Jan 2022, 19:53)

It looks like the official parliament petition against the bill has closed, but this one from Liberty is still open: https://action.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/page/78339/petition/1?locale=en-GB

Tue 11 Jan 2022, 17:24

Excellent series on R4 The Coming Storm.  I recommend it.

Mon 10 Jan 2022, 10:30 (last edited on Mon 10 Jan 2022, 10:31)

1. Charlie:  it's an interesting idea, and was the law of the land in the 1950s (and maybe after that) - TV and radio were forbidden to make political comment once an election had been called.  But today a surprising number of people get their news - however defined - from social media, which can't be suppressed.  And of course the social media business model relies upon driving users to extremes, by sending them more extreme versions of ideas that they already 'like.'  
2. Benjamin Franklin said something useful: 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.'  
3. Nearly all our current self-styled leaders don't  have enough hinterland to take the longer and broader view.

Sun 9 Jan 2022, 13:03

Rosemary, it is exactly the same apathy that is given to refugees drowning in the English Channel. Casting my eye over the last 40 years or so, I would say that it started to become prevalent when Thatcher took power, and has grown steadily since. 

To my mind, the press are at least partly to blame, with their move to the political right over this period. And people actually believe a lot of the cr*p that they write!

I believe (and have said so for years) that as soon as a general election is announced, the press should be barred from any political comment. As far as I can recall, no one (yet!) has disagreed with my belief! 

Sun 9 Jan 2022, 11:08

Terrifying. I am at a loss to understand the apathy in the country to these threats to shred civil society.

Sat 8 Jan 2022, 10:47 (last edited on Sat 8 Jan 2022, 17:46)

I'm reading Barbara Walter's book 'How Civil Wars Start: and How to Stop Them.' in which she makes the point that one causal feature is the rise of politicians who make their appeal in terms of tribal/identity affiliation (rather than policies) - so race, religion, rural vs urban, and similar; and she quotes a good deal of research indicating that societies are very vulnerable when in transition.  It's a very good book.

Walker is primarily concerned with relating her analysis to the current situation in the USA, bur it makes interesting reading read in the context of Brexit, Johnson et al, and their cronies.  

I could write an essay (but not here) however I will continue to wear my EU flag beret and await arrest. 

Fri 7 Jan 2022, 13:17 (last edited on Sat 8 Jan 2022, 17:17)

Totally agree Charlie.

I'm shocked by the drift to the right.

Hopefully it will stop, but there is a sense of déjà vu, which is why I posted about Johnson culling his party.

Fri 7 Jan 2022, 13:04

The Johnson government is rapidly moving towards a state of totalitarianism.

One definition of Fascism is a government that "exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Whilst I think I would (just about) argue that Johnson's government has not yet (overtly, at least) played the "race card", they concur in pretty well every other aspect of the above definition.

So for me - and many others I have spoken with about this - we now have a 95% (?) Fascist government.

Fri 7 Jan 2022, 09:32

I agree Liz.

This lurch to the Right is appalling - under the Nationality and Borders Bill being debated in the House of Lords, if the British government wants to remove someone's citizenship it will no longer need to tell them!

What's to be done?  "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance".

Thu 6 Jan 2022, 19:26 (last edited on Thu 6 Jan 2022, 23:04)

Johnson expelled 21 members of his own party.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_suspension_of_rebel_Conservative_MPs

Thu 6 Jan 2022, 18:02

This is currently in the House of Lords.  It is shocking.  Here is just one of the proposals included:

Greatly expand police “stop and search” powers, allowing the police to stop and
search people or vehicles if they suspect they might be carrying any item that
could be used in prohibited protests. A prohibited protest is defined in the Bill as any protest that has “a relevant impact” on or causes “serious annoyance” to any TWO people within the vicinity of the protest, or that causes “serious disruption” to any organisation. Material for use in protests might include placards, banners, loudhailers or any other items commonly used by protesters.

Protest will be criminalised and those found guilty could be subject to 12 months in prison.

A series of amendments have been put into the Bill in the House of Lords.  If they are voted down, they cannot be re-inserted in the Commons.  Green and LibDem peers are leading the fight.  Labour peers are not engaging - incredibly.