Charlbury station (Debate)

Wed 26 Jul 2023, 11:06

I think you asked Richard to move this into the Debate section Nicolette as you were concerned about someone seeing the thread. I'm not sure why as I don't think anyone was particularly rude.

Wed 26 Jul 2023, 08:12

Re Brian's entry, I think ones comments to The consultation have to be in today so check on this and hurry. The more people who contact them the better. Perhaps Richard could put this info on the forum as some people don't read "debate"

Tue 25 Jul 2023, 17:27

For those who wish to make their views known regarding the proposed ticket office closures, an easy to complete form is available at:

https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/ticket-office-consultation/

Alternatively, email your views to:

TicketOffice.GWR@transportfocus.org.uk

You may wish to use some of the points in this list compiled by Cotswold Line Promotion Group to be found here:

https://clpg.online/2023/07/closure-of-ticket-offices/

Tue 25 Jul 2023, 08:04

Thanks Emily. I have already got the station booking office put on the conservation area committee 's agenda for Thursday 's meeting and hope the Town Council 's two members together with the district and county councillors who are also members will be there . I have also notified the CPRE who also have a representative on that committee of this problem. Hopefully , having written to the Town Council I shall get a reply from them. Let's hope for a favourable out come to this matter

Mon 24 Jul 2023, 22:18

The Town Council have agreed to submit a objection response to the ticket office closure at Charlbury Station. We are also going to be contacting the Conservation Area Advisory Committee (CAAC) regarding the state of the station building. 

Mon 24 Jul 2023, 12:32

Thank you Gareth and Emily and the TC.

I appreciate that money is tight but perhaps some areas of concern could be prioritised?

Last week I was heading into Charlbury Town Centre when I toppled over banging my head and suffering a serious blow to my elbow which was dressed by the nurse at CMC.  I was only going at 4 mph - it was on Hixet Wood by Little Lees and I ended up upside down with the scooter on top of me, until a passer by and his wife found me and rescued me.  I think that perhaps the camber there is wonky?  Anyway, perhaps I belong in the gutter.  ;-)

Anyway many thanks for considering the issue.  Where can I find the consultation paper so that I know which areas to avoid?

Mon 24 Jul 2023, 10:50

As Gareth says, the TC will be voting this evening on whether we respond to the consultation as a local parish council. I hope we will as this consultation will affect everyone, particularly those in vulnerable groups. It also would be a shame if you we don't, given Charlbury as adopted the climate emergency and is trying to make travelling by public transport more accessible and appealing. 

Mon 24 Jul 2023, 07:44

The Town Council will be discussing its response at the planning meeting this evening.

Sun 23 Jul 2023, 15:14

GBR?

So the Tories are backtracking (sic) again.

Anyway, who is this Shapps chap?  He has a record of changing his name whenever it suits him.

Before the pandemic I had a Senior Railcard but not since.  Who will help me and my mobility scooter on to the train?

Charlbury might be a good place to live if you don't have a disability.  Walkers and cyclists are welcome, but people with disabilities are not.

Sun 23 Jul 2023, 11:36

Don't forget Grant Shapps MP and Great British Railways currently setting up shop in Derby.  

"GBR will simplify the current mass of confusing tickets with new flexible season tickets and a significant roll-out of more convenient Pay As You Go, contactless and digital ticketing on smartphones."  Conservative Party policy.  

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/great-british-railways-for-the-passenger

Sun 23 Jul 2023, 11:35 (last edited on Sun 23 Jul 2023, 11:36)

They are in the process of interviewing which is why the job is no longer being advertised. They offered the job to someone but they then pulled out

Sun 23 Jul 2023, 10:15 (last edited on Sun 23 Jul 2023, 10:31)

Mark, I went to the First Group website, where you can search for jobs by location. I entered "Oxfordshire" as the location, and - surprise surprise - there is only one vacancy: for a "Qualified Train Driver" based in Oxford. 

Whilst I am somewhat relieved that GWR does *not* employ "UNqualified" train drivers, it would seem that the question of manning Charlbury Station (or any other similar station, for that matter) has been quietly shelved ...

... so it looks as if we need to noisily UNshelve it!

Sat 22 Jul 2023, 17:41

It would be interesting to see if there is an actual advertisement!  Egg on face in not one 

Sat 22 Jul 2023, 12:56

I did ask First Group for details of where they were advertising the vacancy, so it could be posted locally.  No reply…… one wonders whether it was advertised in a cupboard with a sign on it saying BEWARE OF THE SERPENT.

But we all know that this is being driven from above.

Fri 21 Jul 2023, 08:56

I love your optimism, Alice, in expecting our MP to lobby for more pay!  It goes wider and deeper than that, though - we are short of people to recruit into jobs generally.  GWR have struggled to recruit someone to manage our station, and I suspect the same is true in lots of places like Charlbury.  So the knee-jerk reaction is to rely on technology to fill the gap - except that it doesn't work for everyone.

Thu 20 Jul 2023, 19:09

The only people who want the ticket offices to close are those that stand to make money out of their closure.  Conservatives like to spend less on public services. 

The railway service is a public service that benefits the whole country.  A cost well worth paying for in my view.  Mr Courts needs to argue with the Treasury for more money to fund a pay rise for the railway staff and keep the ticket offices staffed for the sale of tickets.  GWR are only managers under contract, they get paid by the Government and the railway users.  The station is a public asset and this tea drinking strategic voter is very fond of it. 

Thu 20 Jul 2023, 10:07

If the people who are front line staff think a manned office is needed ( what has changed from when it was manned ? ) , then the need and desire is somewhat obvious! ?  The ability to advise, assist , communicate and have full use of the facilities contained within the station building come into play . The gardens always looked nice - or I suppose can give way to biodiversity ( is this another way of cost cutting ? ) I suppose that they would able to sell tickets !!!

Thu 20 Jul 2023, 09:10

Yes, I was wondering about that. Who are the "computer competant champagne socialists" that are causing this trouble?

Thu 20 Jul 2023, 09:01

Mr Courts could persuade his Government to stop the closures.

I’d not thought of Mr Sunak as a champagne socialist, on any level (not least because he doesn’t drink).

Thu 20 Jul 2023, 08:33

Our MP has sent me the GWRreply to his request that they answer my concerns about the fate of Charlbury's station booking office and a statement of exactly what they intend to do about things. Their reply is long ,clear and depressing. So in reply to Mr Court asking whether I'm happy or is there anything he can do I shall say no I am not happy because there is no guarantee that the building when repaired will be open to the public which means being manned. The rail trade unions today state again that they want the booking offices manned so it is only the computer competant champagne socialists who want them closed . Can charlbury unite in trying to save our station and booking office. 

Sun 16 Jul 2023, 16:34

All I want to do is delete all my entries but how do I do that?

Sun 16 Jul 2023, 09:49

Malcolm, flattery will get you everywhere.....we (ie: OCC) are talking to GWR about how we can improve facilities at stations like Charlbury but I would not wish to exaggerate my influence over GWR!

Sun 16 Jul 2023, 06:56 (last edited on Sun 16 Jul 2023, 06:59)

Charlie, if you only have cash to pay for your ticket, what you do is get on the train and pay at the first available opportunity that will not delay your journey (often the guard of the train).  You may find yourself in an argument with ticket collectors, but this is covered by the national conditions of carriage and the penalty fare regulations.

It is what you have to do on those not so rare occasions when the ticket machine is bust (advisable to take a picture of the blank screen to back up your story),

Sat 15 Jul 2023, 23:25

Liz - it's probable your the most influential person about - what would it take to get Oxford Parkway type of design of machines with their superior capabilities purchased by GWR scrooges to provision our Brunel-designed station in Charlbury? He's probably spinning the proverbial at the incompetence and heap-skating of what exists here!

How could we raise a local "howl' about being fobbed off with inferior robotics (and no doubt cheap'n'nasty) in machine IF IF IF we can't win a fight for Station Staff? 

Sat 15 Jul 2023, 18:39 (last edited on Sat 15 Jul 2023, 18:44)

So it sounds as if the Parkway "Help Desk" also doubles as a ... Ticket Office! Which is what we need at Charlbury!

And as far as I can remember, the ticket machine at Charlbury does not allow cash, so how do those people travel who do not have "plastic" or the means to buy tickets online?

I would summarise by saying that *some* kind of "human interface" is necessary.

And please note that I managed to write my email up to here without mentioning how dreadful our local MP is for fear of being removed to OBLIVION!  😜

Sat 15 Jul 2023, 15:58

Thanks for the latest information about the station Liz. Sounds hopeful regarding the building at least and we will have to see how any new system for buying tickets works. I agree Oxford Parkway works pretty well with much better and more user friendly machines and someone on hand to help you if you are not sure.

(P.S. And well done for not mentioning how dreadful our local MP is for fear of being removed to OBLIVION!)

Sat 15 Jul 2023, 12:34 (last edited on Sat 15 Jul 2023, 12:37)

The system at Oxford Parkway works well. There isn't a ticket office but they have very user-friendly ticket machines, much better than the one here, and if people can't use them there is someone who will sell a ticket to you from the help desk. I got confirmation today that in order to get the building open once repairs are done the manager of the North Cotswold Line will be at the station for part of every day while they recruit a permanent staff member.

Fri 14 Jul 2023, 20:00

How ridiculous that they ‘ intend ‘ to help to use an automated machine , that often doesn’t work, has insufficient capacity at busy times , and not sell tickets . Mixed message , with the underlying message they don’t have a clue , understand or care ! 

Fri 14 Jul 2023, 15:56 (last edited on Fri 14 Jul 2023, 15:59)

GWR is responsible for the station building and I have been in touch to find out when they expect the building to reopen.

The repairs and the removal of the asbestos are almost complete and they expect that to be finished in the next two weeks.  However they will not open the building until they have a new permanent station manager in place and at the moment they are in the process of recruiting.   The station manager will be able to help people to use the ticket machine but they do not intend to reopen the ticket office.  

There is a consultation going on at the moment about the closure of ticket offices, and OCC and other councils will be submitting their comments.  You can access the consultation on https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/train-station-ticket-office-consultation/ as well as via the freepost address Nicolette has posted, and it is open till July 26th.

By the way I noticed yesterday that the information boards are not working and have alerted GWR to this and have been told that they will get them working again 

As per Nicolette's request, I make no comment about our MP's ability to provide this information in a timely manner for fear of being banished

Wed 12 Jul 2023, 10:43

I think the station building is owned by GWR in this case as are all the stations on the Cotwold Line but I could be wrong. 

Network Rail owns the infrastructure, including the railway tracks, signals, overhead wires, tunnels, bridges, level crossings and most stations. 

Wed 12 Jul 2023, 10:33

Back again. Our MP has replied to my email and he has requested answers from BRitish rail or whatever they call themselves as to what they are doing about repairing our booking office and manning it. When they reply he will get back to me. It will NOT be helpful if anyone posts rude remarks on this forum and I hope Richard will remove any to DEBATE or oblivion

Tue 11 Jul 2023, 20:57

The stated plan (but believe what you will!) is that there will still be one member of staff at Charlbury station, keeping the same hours, but in a location “closer to the customer”.

At Oxford station I suspect the plan is to have marauding staff directing people to the ticket machines, or waving QR codes at them to download an app, or whatever. Which strikes me as inefficient but is nonetheless plausible.

In Charlbury? There isn’t really anywhere for the staff member to go that’s more accessible than the ticket window. So I suspect they will stay there and not much will change.

It has the air of a scheme dreamed up by a civil servant in the Department for Transport who has never seen any station other than Waterloo or Surbiton. 

Tue 11 Jul 2023, 20:55

It’s grade II listed Charlie, so has some protection through that.

Tue 11 Jul 2023, 18:52

Is there actually a preservation order on Charlbury Station? If not, there needs to be. How do we go about getting one in place?

Moreover GWR (or whatever they call themselves nowadays!) needs to be held responsible for restoring and preserving a classic raliway building designed by Britain's greatest railway engineer of all time: Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

Tue 11 Jul 2023, 18:32

A tiny glimmer of hope. Today I took my guests to an excellent and very reasonably priced lunch at the Deli, pointed out the other eating places in charlbury and , before they got too impressed I took them to the shambles which is our station where we found a sizeable group of workmen having a rather extended lunch break but saying that they were repairing the booking office. They said that they couldn't see any point being employed to do that if railway staff were not going to be brought back ; admirable logic which I fear will not have entered British Rails'mind but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Mon 10 Jul 2023, 11:42

If the staffed ticket office closes, I cannot imagine that there will be a GWR colleague on the platform available to purchase a ticket during all the stated opening times of the building (otherwise there would be no salary saved). On this basis, I shall be responding to the consultation in part arguing that the status of Charlbury as a Penalty Fare station should be rescinded and passengers should be freely be able to buy a ticket on the train rather than face a potential fine.

Mon 10 Jul 2023, 08:13

Michael, have you heard the saying " it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness " charlbury may lose its crumbling neglected booking office but let's just try to save it . You worked wonders at the Deli so use your undoubted skills to save our booking office. 

Sat 8 Jul 2023, 14:25

Well said, John L, the Charlbury station is about so much more than financial transactions. In the not so distant past, it used to be a place where you could get a newspaper, a coffee and meet up with fellow commuters. And warm up because there was a wood-burning stove. Ultimately, these decisions are about the communities/society we want to live in. I for one would not want to it be somewhere where my everyday interactions are reduced to those with machines, or with one-dimensional people in Zoom rooms. And I'm pretty computer-literate. 

Sat 8 Jul 2023, 13:21

The Ben Elton programme last week on the Railways was very enlightening. Privatisation has a lot to answer for!

Sat 8 Jul 2023, 12:42

Sadly this is all part of the movement to make the customer do all the work. It ranges from the "lottery" of booking concert tickets online, to sporting events and other function. For me, the most irritating thing is the dreaded supermarket self-checkout. I refuse to use them, and always make sure that a member of the supermarket staff does the work that *I* am expected to do. I use the trains once in a blue moon, but if I have to board a train without the booking office being open, I will happily pay on the train. But I do *NOT* use ticket machines and suchlike. Call me a Luddite if you wish ... I will accept the label gladly! 

Sat 8 Jul 2023, 10:52

Who actually wants to spend more time navigating through screens? The argument that railway staff will have more time helping travellers just doesn't wash.  Closing the booking offices is short term financial gain for the shareholders and a long term loss for travellers and the community. Any business (it's really a service) cuts customer services at its own peril. Psychologists stress the importance of even the most superficial of human interactions for everyone's wellbeing. In the past the station staff have made the station into a convivial, welcoming place. This issue is not just functional it's deeply human.

Sat 8 Jul 2023, 08:58

Mick Lynch RMT has been telling us for a year on the Today programme that the deal on the table to pay salaries depended on a cost cutting programme which included closing small local ticket offices.  Expect worse services folks!

Interesting argument about using online services.  My mother used computers regularly during her later life, completing an online Charity return at the age of 91 years.  Please let's not be ageist.  But sadly the skill left her and by her 92nd birthday she couldn't do it even though she was well able to travel on the train.  Cutting the cost of goods and services to increase profit/decrease loss by transferring activity to the consumer makes us all less efficient. 

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 22:27

There’s also a petition on the Government Petition website.

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 20:33

Do you want to help save rail ticket offices? I've signed the petition and lobbied Robert Courts our local mp https://www.rmt.org.uk/campaigns/rail/save-ticket-offices/

If you want to click the GWR link

Great Western Railway LIVE https://act.newmode.net/action/trades-union-congress/save-your-great-western-railway-ticket-offices

I agree in principle with the plight as it's all about what the Tory's are doing to the working classes. The same thing is happening everywhere and it is wrong

They are standing up to the government

I am a man of the people!

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 13:33 (last edited on Fri 7 Jul 2023, 15:38)

It is not just about buying tickets but as Gareth points out, buying tickets online or via the ticket machine (when it works!) has its limitations.

No Cotswold Line Card

No Bus Plus

No buying tickets from other stations (i.e., you have a season to Oxford but want a ticket to Reading)

You can’t load-up your smartcard on the ticket machine

It doesn’t always offer you the cheaper tickets.

There is only one ticket machine, which is often broken or filled with water when it rains.

Outside of that, there are no toilets open when the station is closed. What if there’s a medical emergency? Or an animal gets onto the tracks? When there’s multiple cancellations? Safety for passengers.

Michael, all the things you request in your bullet points, would be solved by a manned ticket office.

This is about cost-cutting not about modernisation.

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 12:54

Heritage England, Charlie.

Among the things we will lose through this cut is the Cotswold Line railcard, which cannot be bought online.  The attempts to force people to order virtual tickets that rely on a functional mobile phone of a certain specification are wrong on several levels.

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 11:25

As a council taxpayer, I think it's a disgraceful waste of public resources even to suggest that the Charlbury Town Council - or any other public body - attempt to persuade the railway company to keep the ticket office open.

We're only a year or so away from the 50th anniversary of my first having a personal computer on my desk. Anyone my age or older still uncomfortable with using computers has chosen to avoid modern technology - and it's not the job of local councils, at any level, to spend their time merely supporting citizens' lifestyle choices.

Instead of advocating time be spent on a wild goose chase that'll fail anyway, councillors (or anyone else who cares about citizens' convenience) would do better helping find alternative ways for people without access to a computer to buy train tickets. These might include:

• "Computers for the uncomputerate" classes
• Informal Charlbury networks (akin to ATIC) in which Charlburians offer to do the chore of booking tickets online for their neighbours
• Finding a mechanism by which train tickets can be bought from supervised (and more central than an uncomfortable and hilly walk from central Charlbury) locations - like pubs or shops
• Thought-through lobbying for ticket machines that are legible when the sun shines and offer shelter from the rain if you're queueing.
• All-day, every day, secure shelter on the Oxford-bound platform. 
• Any other affordable bright ideas for making our poorly accessible railway service more convenient for anyone with limited mobility. And there really ARE higher priorities than a personned ticket office for most of us beginning to suffer from the frailities inevitable as  we age.  

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 10:22

How does one go about getting attention to a listed building that has been neglected? National Trust? Some other body? A cynical view might be that if that listed building is owned by an organisation that is more concerned with paying bonuses and dividends to directors and shareholders, then maybe it shouldn't be! 

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 08:16

Hi Nicolette, we are in discussions about how to respond as a Council. As a commuter, I think it’s disgusting and obviously not to the benefit of customers.

Fri 7 Jul 2023, 07:31

My son has provided me with details of how to complain about the proposed closure of station manned booking offices. I do hope the Town Council are going to act to save Charlbury's. I don't know how to get the link on to this site but the address is Freeposr, RTEH-XAGE-BYKZ, transport Focus, PO Box 5594, Southend on sea, SS1 9PZ

Thu 6 Jul 2023, 13:06

How can a computer illiterate person complain about the plan to close station booking offices. I haven't been able to use the railway since the charlbury booking office closed. And whilst we are on the subject ,the booking office which is a listed building looks like a rotting wreck and is not a very good advertisement for the town